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California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

cpuc.ca.gov

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Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#401

Post by NewJazz »

sowbug wrote: post #270
iaseiadit wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually have a good experience, but just in the last few weeks it’s been bad: - Driver started watching TikTok videos on his dashboard-mounted phone while driving - Driver going way over the speed limit in stormy weather - A driver was clearly sick, coughing and sniffling and sneezing the whole ride - Got in a car and it reeked of marijuana - Got in a car and it reeked of BO At this point I’d probably prefer a robo…

Some of these will still happen, even in a self-driving car, because of prior passengers. In fact they might be more of a problem because passengers won't have another human in the car inhibiting their impolite or gross behavior. I look forward to Snow Crash 's self-cleaning public restrooms.

Pretty sure you get filmed while you are in the car so smoking is going to be a challenge.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#402

Post by derwiki »

jajko wrote: post #391
tzs wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that they will eventually have displays around the sides to show ads, they could also use those to show nearby people who they see and how they plan to maneuver around them. So if they are showing an ad on the display on your side it means that either it doesn’t see you or thinks you are far enough away that it does not have to account for you in its short term planning. If it sees you and is taking you into…

If they will be running around with displays showing ads I'll never be without few rocks in my pocket just to keep things balanced and maintaining healthier society. I know it sounds harsh, but force feeding me ads I definitely don't want to see while being unable to avoid them (stay home ain't no argument in civilized world) is unacceptable, and there is no but XYZ to make that stance any weaker. Ads are a cancer of…

How do you feel about billboards?

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#403

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dangus wrote: post #398
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I didn't die, but I wasn't happy either. Enough that I feel like I have more control over my fate if I drive. > Fear isn’t the same as risk. I don't think you've ever had a knife waved at you by a crazy person before. Don't be an idiot, if something looks really dangerous, it probably is. > How many people die of assaults on public transit every year? I’ll let you look that one up. The first one this year in our c…

I'm not saying that it wasn't dangerous, I'm saying that the statistical probability of the situation you were in happening and resulting in an injury or death is lower than the probability of injury or death in a motor vehicle. You might feel like you have more control over your fate when you're driving, but as the say in the deep bowels American political culture, "facts don't care about your feelings." The same fa…

Most DUI crashes happen at night, when public transportation is going to be even less useful, and Uber/waymo are important in making things better. Carjackings don’t happen here, although they do happen south of here (a poor girl got shot dead in tukwila a few weeks ago). KiaBoyz are a problem, especially with our non pursuit law (the girl was killed by kids who were let go by Seattle police earlier in the day because they couldn’t chase them).

I always take transit downtown despite the risks, it’s just too convenient, but that’s just occasionally. My wife takes it also, a lot more, and it’s a completely different fear factor for a woman traveling alone. However, that’s all we really use it for, for anything else we drive. This is in contrast to my experience living outside the states, where I could actually live without a car.

All of transit’s safety issues are actually preventable by just being more strict about what people can get away with on buses (eg no smoking fent on the bus) and enforcing fares (not for the revenue, but people who don’t pay fares are more likely to cause other problems). I’m pretty sure if anyone tried these things in Lausanne, multiple swat teams would be on them quickly (heck, I’ve seen that happen for just not paying fares, don’t mess with Swiss police or even Swiss transit police). If Seattle wants us to use transit more, they need to take safety more seriously. Other countries do that, they get better results. Otherwise, we will lean more heavily on private transit like Waymo.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#404

Post by derwiki »

tempest_ wrote: post #24
austinkhale wrote: post #8

Fantastic news. I use them all the time in Phoenix. My mom uses them to get to her doctor appointments. I think people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft.

> people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft I do underestimate it. What are quality of life improvements? Seems to be the same thing from a customer perspective. I guess if you are concerned for your safety from the uber driver it is an improvement but it is the only one that comes to mind.

Yea, rideshare drivers are aggressive to the point of making me feel unsafe. I’d rather have granny Waymo drive me around.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#405

Post by coalteddy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #183
hiddencost wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sucks because we don't fund it. Europe does fine.

I hate the comparisons to Europe, because they're apples to oranges. I've been in European cities and I totally agree, it's a joy to be able to take public transit and/or walk everywhere. But most European cities were built long before the car. Older US cities (Boston, NY) have great public transit/walking options, though I agree deferred maintenance is taking its toll. But if you look at cities designed around the c…

US cities love their cars. Not even in city centers do they prioritize pedestrians over cars. That has nothing to do with apples or oranges. It's a priority thing and not costs. There is no reason to need cars in city centers. Makes cities ugly, loud and dangerous compared to europe or asia.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#406

Post by amelius »

somethoughts wrote: post #269
konschubert wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a biker, I feel MICH safer around self driving cars because I know they are paying attention. I don’t need to check if they see me. They do.

Going forward - I think it's important to not just categorically say all self driving cars are safer than human drivers. It's probably better to say I feel safer around Waymo and self driving cars. With such complexity and unknowns within the codebase - there is likely going to be a much higher amount of variability w.r.t. safety and AI decision making. I'm not so sure I'd categorically say a self driving car from sa…

"I feel so safe around commit 07cc283a8344 of the Waymo software."

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#407

Post by nradov »

thereisnospork wrote: post #278
nradov wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Cars are expensive. Waymo won't keep a bunch of extras sitting around just so that they have reserve capacity to scale up service during unusually busy events. It's more profitable just to make customers wait, or ask them to pay a higher fare for priority service.

What they can do is trivially reroute cars from the suburbs - a level of supply control Uber can only approximate with surge pricing.

It turns out everyone in the suburbs is also going to a Superbowl party. Whoops.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#408

Post by jessriedel »

Sakos wrote: post #396
jessriedel wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how aware Waymo cars are of their surroundings. Waymo cars are extremely, extremely aware of their surroundings. They have a category, distance, speed, and distribution of possible future paths for all cars, pedestrians, and bicyclists within sight over 360 degrees. > Why don't they have a (or something like a) 360 degree string of LEDs (for example on the roof) that lights up a few in the direction of…

> What is the threshold for how far away something is before it's indicated on the ring? If I'm standing just outside that distance, how will I know it's because of distance rather than because I haven't been seen? If the distance is set long, how will I know it sees me and not something behind me? I feel like this is a non-issue. The LEDs can be a certain size. They could be dimmable so their brightness can be modul…

Strong disagree that this is all non-issue/obvious. There are plenty of cases where it's better to not communicate rather than try and communicate in a way that is likely to be misinterpreted. Regarding your "just make the LEDs dimmable", this just adds more opportunities for confusion; humans will have no idea how the distance-brightness relationship is calibrated, it will appear different depending on the lighting conditions, etc. Just like consider how many gauges you have ever seen that communicate a continuous variable based on the brightness of the display. (Very few or none).

No one is throwing up their hands. Human-autonomous-vehicle communication is a whole research field. Waymo has every incentive here to both make the vehicles safer and to make pedestrians feel safer (holding actual safety fixed).

The ultimate test is not your first gut reaction as to whether they have done "enough", but rather it's whether the vehicles are safer than human-driven ones, and the evidence so far strongly points to that being the case.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#409

Post by alistairSH »

bastawhiz wrote: post #294
alistairSH wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if it’s coded that way. And a profit-seeking org may not code it that way if the optimal solution (for them) is canceling and finding more lucrative passengers.

A profit seeking org wouldn't take the ride in the first place instead of repeatedly accepting and cancelling. Or it would simply increase the price because it implicitly knows the value.

And yet Uber allows drivers to cancel, which has the same impact as an AI cancelling.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#410

Post by hnaccount_rng »

zorowithenma wrote: post #386
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automated vehicles will enable smaller buses that drive themselves and make serving these places profitable to service. Automated taxi services like Waymo also ultimately be cheaper too.

Nah bro, they would instead send those cars where they would get much more profit. You just can't expect too many cab bookings in a small town of 1500. Idk bout EU but here in India we have public transport to even remote places and it is sure profitable and many people do use it everyday, even if the population is less many use public transit instead of own veichles in towns.

I don't know. One "problem" is the salary around here. You simply cannot generate enough revenue from anything below 30k people for anything more than school buses (which are both predictable and tax-funded). But you wouldn't need that many rides to justify a taxi. Those _are_ around, even though typically you need to call well in advance. So even if there is like one of those autonomous taxis for a dozen 1.5k villages that will probably be both enough for any reasonable situation and an improvement wrt to the current state
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