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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#941

Post by bastawhiz »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #839

"In March 2023, OpenAI released its most powerful language model yet, GPT-4. GPT-4 is not just capable of reasoning. It is better at reasoning than average humans. It scored in the 90th percentile on the Uniform Bar Exam for lawyers. It scored in the 99th percentile on the GRE Verbal Assessment. It even scored a 77% on the Advanced Sommelier examination." One could argue a common characteristic of the above exams is…

> Surely GPT-4 would fail some exams. But when it comes to GPT-4's exam performance, only the positive results are reported.

The default is failing the exams. I'd be no less impressed if they came right out and said "This is a short list of the only exams it passes" simply because (IMO) it's remarkable that a machine could pass any of those exams in the first place. Just a couple years ago, it would have been outlandish for a machine to even have a double digit score (at best!).

If we've already found ourselves in a position where passing grades on some exams that qualify people for their careers is unremarkable, I'll honestly be a bit disappointed. 99th percentile on the GRE Verbal would make an NLP researcher from 2010 have a damn aneurysm; if we're now saying that's "not reasoning" then we're surely moving the goalposts for what that means.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#942

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

Geezus_42 wrote: post #795
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI being a nonprofit is like Anthony Levandowski’s "Way of the Future" being a 501(c) (3) religious nonprofit. All of which is lifted from Stranger in a Strange Land and L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology. (It wouldn't be the first time someone made a nerd-cult: Aum Shinrikyo was full of physics grad students and had special mind-reading hats. Though that was unironically a cult. Whereas the others were started explici…

Say hello to "effective altruism".

From a distance that looked ok to me at first. It looked like some bloggers writing essays about what is good, with the attitude of a policy wonk. But clearly it's also provided the moral rhetoric behind such bizarre groups as SBF's Adderall-fueled crypto-grift polycule, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are others I don't know about. Maybe you have more examples.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#943

Post by loceng »

belter wrote: post #933
troupe wrote: post #438

If OpenAI became a non-profit with this in its charter: “resulting technology will benefit the public and the corporation will seek to open source technology for the public benefit when applicable. The corporation is not organized for the private gain of any person" I don't think it is going to be hard to show that they are doing something very different than what they said they were going to do.

Taking into account, the reported reason Elon Musk departed from the project, is because he wanted OpenAI to merge with Tesla, and he would take complete control of the project, this lawsuit smells of hypocrisy. "The secret history of Elon Musk, Sam Altman, and OpenAI" - https://www.semafor.com/article/03/24/2023/the-secret-histor... But that was to be expected, from the guy who forced his employees to go work with C…

Can you cite the specific line and source claiming "reported reason Elon Musk departed from the project"? Feels taken out of context from what I remembering reading before.

Not sure I'd trust Washington Post to present a story accurately - whether the termination notices were relevant to the premise presented.

Did he attend the Twitter deposition via video? Seems like a hit piece.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#944

Post by chaseadam17 »

Usually when you convert from a non-profit to a for-profit, the non-profit has a third party value its assets then sells them to the new for-profit.

Because you are acquiring assets from yourself, there are some protections, like you can’t have the same people run the non-profit and the new for-profit and the attorney general has to sign off on the transaction, which I believe happened with OpenAI.

Also, the non-profit has to use the funds it received in the acquisition to continue to further its original mission.

My gut is the lawsuit will come down to whether the for-profit paid a fair price, which in retrospect could look suspect given how much OpenAI is valued at now, but the government and a third party likely already approved the transaction long ago.

It may also come down to whether the non-profit used / is using the funds it received in exchange for the assets to continue to serve the public interest per OpenAIs original mission and not the interests of the new for-profit or any associated individuals.

This will be a good test for the legal strategies to convert non-profits to for-profits.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#945

Post by loceng »

bwilliams18 wrote: post #836
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about damages. How difficult to show. In case anyone is confused I am referring to 126, 132 and 135. Not 127. "126. As a direct and proximate result of Defendants breaches, Plaintiff has suffered damages in an amount that is presently unknown, but that substantially exceeds this Courts jurisdictional minimum of $35,000, and, if necessary, will be proven at trial. 127. Plaintiff also seeks and is entitled to spec…

Elon's asking for specific performance (IE they uphold the agreement) not damages.

OpenAI, even the name was his suggestion from what I remember reading, wouldn't exist without him - other investors may not have invested either without his money essentially vouching for the organization, and also its primary AI developer likely wouldn't have joined the OpenAI either if it wasn't for AI; who I believe is the one who recently announced they're leaving OpenAI, and I'd speculate they're joining Elon's new AI effort.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#947

Post by pixl97 »

nicce wrote: post #603
FeepingCreature wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only holds if defense outscales attack. It seems very likely that attack outscales defense to me with LLMs.

Well then, isn’t the whole case about just denying the inevitable? If OpenAI can do it, I would not say that that is very unlikely for someone else to do the same. Open or not. The best chance is still that we prepare with the best available information.

>denying the inevitable

I mean, you spend a lot of time in your own life denying the inevitable, humans spend a lot of time and effort avoiding their own personal extinction.

>The best chance is still

The best information we have now is if we create AGI/ASI at this time, we all die. The only winning move is not to play in that game.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#948

Post by belter »

loceng wrote: post #943
belter wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking into account, the reported reason Elon Musk departed from the project, is because he wanted OpenAI to merge with Tesla, and he would take complete control of the project, this lawsuit smells of hypocrisy. "The secret history of Elon Musk, Sam Altman, and OpenAI" - https://www.semafor.com/article/03/24/2023/the-secret-histor... But that was to be expected, from the guy who forced his employees to go work with C…

Can you cite the specific line and source claiming "reported reason Elon Musk departed from the project"? Feels taken out of context from what I remembering reading before. Not sure I'd trust Washington Post to present a story accurately - whether the termination notices were relevant to the premise presented. Did he attend the Twitter deposition via video? Seems like a hit piece.

"...And Musk proposed a possible solution: He would take control of OpenAI and run it himself.

Altman and OpenAI’s other founders rejected Musk’s proposal. Musk, in turn, walked away from the company — and reneged on a massive planned donation. The fallout from that conflict, culminating in the announcement of Musk’s departure on Feb 20, 2018..."

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#949

Post by the_optimist »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #878
the_optimist wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sorta a boring fanfic take. Please show us how you read the materials to establish your conclusion.

By materials you mean the filing? the wording of the filing fits the plaintiffs narrative. its the most biased possible source.

Can you illuminate how you think about this? The purpose of the filing is to introduce specific fact statements and allegations based on those facts. Bias is implicit. The facts and arguments are open for you to dispute.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#950

Post by maximus-decimus »

freedomben wrote: post #704
patcon wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I try to port your logic over into nuclear capacity it doesn't hold very well. Nuclear capacity is constrained, and those constraining it attempt to do so for reasons public good (energy, warfare, peace). You could argue about effectiveness, but our failure to self-annihilate seems positive testament to the strategy. Transparency does not serve us when mitigating certain forms of danger. I'm trying to remain hum…

The lack of nukes isn't because of restriction of information. That lasted about as long as it took to leak the info to Soviets. It's far more complicated than that. The US (and other nations) is not too friendly toward countries developing nukes. There are significant threats against them. Also perspective is an interesting thing. Non-nuclear countries like Iran and (in the past) North Korea that get pushed around b…

Yeah, I doubt Russia would attack Ukraine like this if they hadn't gotten rid of all their nukes.
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