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Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

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Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#261
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always curious - in fully remote IT (especially one located in another state/country), who does the actual on-site visits? Say, a PC part has to be replaced or a new laptop has to be deployed. For the deployment I guess you can use something like ImmyBot or Intune, but at some point someone has to be there and connect a new machine to the internet/intranet. How does that work in practice?

How often is something like that actually needed, though? Once a month?

So they fly someone once a month? I can see how it gets expensive.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your employees are so disfranchised that their install scripts to wiggle their mouse while they watch Netflix the battle is already lost. That would be a lot of companies and workers out there, dare I say the vast majority even. Believe it or not, many workers don't actually enjoy their work, their company, their boss or their job, but they put up with it because housing in expensive and it was the least horribl…

> Believe it or not, many workers don't actually enjoy their work, their company, their boss or their job There are a lot of people that don't enjoy their jobs, but do the work because they're getting paid to do it. You seem to assume that anyone doing their job _only_ because they're being paid to do it will _not_ do their job if they can get away with it (even though they're still being paid to do so). Not everyone…

Eh scamming companies is fine, especially as they get larger. Companies scam employees whenever they get the chance.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#263
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not like you complete your objectives and then you say "great, we're all done, let's go home." Every company I've ever worked for had a backlog a mile long, and we knew we'd probably only ever get to 20% of it or so. The whole purpose of sprint planning is to just prioritize the most important stuff to work on for the next sprint, but if the teams capacity increases you'd pull more stuff in.

No, the purpose of sprint planning is to specify (more ot less) exactly what you plan to do this sprint. Usually the best case scenario. You make your best effort to finish the things you outlined, sometimes you manage to do it, sometimes you don’t, but why would you ever try to do more than you planned to do? If you’ve done the tasks, you’re done, period, go relax, grab a beer, wait till the next sprint. You’ve lite…

> If you’ve done the tasks, you’re done, period, go relax, grab a beer, wait till the next sprint.

Well, to each their own, but that has never been the case in any of the companies I've worked at. In fairness, over the fast 5 years or so more and more the companies I've worked at have used Kanban over sprint planning, because usually the "estimation" part of agile (i.e. the cards, the voting) has proven to be the most useless piece of agile.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#264

I think future generations will look back and find unfathomable that we spent the best part of 5 days a week (if not more) working. At least I hope so.

I'm starting to think most people have an instinct to work. People thought the dream was to become post-scarcity. But instead of taking steps towards that, people just keep working regardless and then find themselves with huge excesses of money and nothing better to spend it on than oversized cars etc.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#265
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds mostly dysfunctional and not really a WFH issue. > Is the server not responding after the recent power outage? Too bad. The guy to turn it back on only comes in Monday-Tuesday. A reasonable company would have some rotating in-office IT or at the very least an oncall that goes to wherever the server is to fix it. > The plumbers and electricians still "work from home" half the week. Pretty much the same thi…

> If your employees are so disfranchised that their install scripts to wiggle their mouse while they watch Netflix the battle is already lost. That would be a lot of companies and workers out there, dare I say the vast majority even. Believe it or not, many workers don't actually enjoy their work, their company, their boss or their job, but they put up with it because housing in expensive and it was the least horribl…

> That would be a lot of companies and workers out there, dare I say the vast majority even.

Since I joined the workforce, I encountered something like two or three people doing actually nothing at work. And once they are identified, I just know that I can't expect any output from them and just do without them.

It's the opposite that I'm confronted with daily : people who are absolutely terrible at their job and who constantly try participate. Not only I know that I have to triple check their outputs, but I also have to come up with fake tasks to give them so that they are not constantly asking for things to do or worst, doing disasters on their own initiative. They consume a lot of time and energy from the productive members of the team, while having no positive output for the company. It's like daycare for adults. And given that everybody is paid at the end of the month, I have nothing but love for unproductive (in the eyes of the company) people who take care of themselves.

I'd rather have both those people doing what they enjoy outside of work instead of forcing themselves to be here because governments and corporations are saying that you are not a member of society if you are not selling your time to capitalism.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#266
post #194
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer's IT is in a different country. I'm not sure which. If it matters, that's an organizational problem, not a WFH problem.

At the rate things are currently changing, I won't be very surprised if non-trivial server capacity gets located in orbit thanks to some successor to Starlink. This will make remote work mandatory, even if it still can't fix all the possible issues.

But only mandatory in the sense of distance to the equipment - it still won't stop some managers from wanting them all corraled into an office somewhere.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s exactly the driver behind it

Not necessarily - I work for a company which went down to a 4 day work week about 2 years ago and the goal is entirely to improve employee wellbeing. Salaries have not changed and will not change.

Do you still get decent inflation pay rises?

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We went from "six days thou shalt labour" to the 5-day week for a number of reasons. Unions were one reason, Henry Ford was another [1][2]. His original argument was that if we give workers an extra day of leisure time, there'll be more demand for leisure products to consume - like, you know, Model T cars. Then, Ford noticed that his new 5-day workers were so much more productive per hour than before, that it more th…

>Secondly, as in Ford's case, the extra productivity you get this way might be enough to more than offset the losses, and even increase your profits. Henry Ford's revenue boost firstly came from his improvements to automation and innovative highly optimized production line assembly processes, not because le let his workers work 5 days a week instead of 6. It was those innovations that allowed him to reduce the number…

I think we're agreeing more than we disagree, but I'd point out some sections from the 2005 IGDA post on work in the games industry a.k.a. "reaction to ea_spouse" at https://igda.org/resources-archive/why-crunch-mode-doesnt-wo...:

> Ernst Abbe, the head of one of the greatest German factories, wrote many years ago that the shortening from nine to eight hours, that is, a cutting-down of more than 10 per cent, did not involve a reduction of the day’s product, but an increase, and that this increase did not result from any supplementary efforts by which the intensity of the work would be reinforced in an unhygienic way. This conviction of Abbe still seems to hold true after millions of experiments over the whole globe.

This was written 1913, about the time when Ford's automation was just getting going - the "many years ago" and the fact that Abbe died 1905, shows his studies were referring to a time before Ford's production lines and efficiency gains.

> That output does not rise or fall in direct proportion to the number of hours worked is a lesson that seemingly has to be relearned each generation. In 1848, the English parliament passed the ten-hours law and total output per-worker, per-day increased. In the 1890s employers experimented widely with the eight hour day and repeatedly found that total output per-worker increased. In the first decades of the 20th century, Frederick W. Taylor, the originator of “scientific management” prescribed reduced work times and attained remarkable increases in per-worker output.

This too is from a pre-Ford time.

So I would reply that while Ford's innovations might have compounded any gains from shorter working hours, such gains have been found in many other places and times. indeed, the IGDA summarises their evidence by saying "five-day weeks of eight-hour days maximize long-term output in every industry that has been studied over the past century".

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily - I work for a company which went down to a 4 day work week about 2 years ago and the goal is entirely to improve employee wellbeing. Salaries have not changed and will not change.

Do you still get decent inflation pay rises?

Yes, last pay rise far exceeded inflation at the time.

Re: Study: 61 UK firms tried a 4-day workweek and after a year, they still love it

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your employees are so disfranchised that their install scripts to wiggle their mouse while they watch Netflix the battle is already lost. That would be a lot of companies and workers out there, dare I say the vast majority even. Believe it or not, many workers don't actually enjoy their work, their company, their boss or their job, but they put up with it because housing in expensive and it was the least horribl…

> Believe it or not, many workers don't actually enjoy their work, their company, their boss or their job There are a lot of people that don't enjoy their jobs, but do the work because they're getting paid to do it. You seem to assume that anyone doing their job _only_ because they're being paid to do it will _not_ do their job if they can get away with it (even though they're still being paid to do so). Not everyone…

>There are a lot of people that don't enjoy their jobs, but do the work because they're getting paid to do it.

How's that different from what I just said?

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