Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

jzhwu.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 391 posts

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#301

Post by dudeguy999 »

cletus wrote: post #130

"Name and shame" is a thorny issue. Opponents are right in the same way you shouldn't badmouth former employers in job interviewers. It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on. When companies screw you out of money, you should name and shame them (IMHO). Trust me, over the years I've probably lost out on all told $50,000 or more that people never paid. In some cases it…

>Failing to file a referral bonus form while you were an employee is really your fault.

Congratulations, you're an asshole that I never want to work with.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#302

Post by veemjeem »

rb2k_ wrote: post #46
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.

As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…

http://www.lplegal.com/publications/articles/when-email-beco...

According to this legal source, the only way to prevent your email from being a contract is to "recite in the e-mail that there is no intention to create a contract, except pursuant to a separate written agreement."

Also, you better change that opinion of yours, or else you might get caught in hot water yourself!

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#303

Post by prawn »

underwater wrote: post #61

While publicly posting about this probably feels good, it reflects badly on you as well as Miso. * The lack of backups is partly your fault. You were an engineer there after all. * Nuking a production database can happen, but the default assumption is that you are sloppy. * Based on the timeframes one could assume you were fired from Miso. * You have no problem revealing confidential information about your former emp…

I'm sure they know this and it's their choice to do so. Regardless, how much is relevant to the payment owed?

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#304

Post by ChristianMarks »

Expert witness in forensic computing evidence here.

Remember when the too-big-to-fail banks were bailed out to the tune of $700B USD and bank executives insisted they had to be paid their bonuses because their employers were contractually obligated to do so? A lot depends on who the payee is.

In this case, I imagine I would argue (in an affidavit) against the CTO who admitted that there was no backup in place. Also, there was an email suggesting that the verbal contract (now confirmed in writing thanks to the exchange of email!) would be honored except for a database mishap. That's an admission of liability. The emails do not state that the (potential) plaintiff was responsible for backups. They don't say, "you were responsible for backups and you did not implement any." They simply admit there weren't any, which I would count as a failure of management to implement backups.

A good labor lawyer could do a lot with this.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#305

Post by justinhj »

calinet6 wrote: post #197
tptacek wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't understand the mentality behind looking for reasons not to pay out bonuses. I see it all the time. It baffles me. When people have credible claims to incentive compensation, just freaking pay them. Almost by definition, we're talking about sums of money with very little marginal impact on the company; those same sums often have unpredictably huge impacts on employees. Forward-looking, employees-only, wha…

> Almost by definition, we're talking about sums of money with very little marginal impact on the company; those same sums often have unpredictably huge impacts on employees. This should be the way every employer sees bonuses. The have huge potential negative and positive impacts, with most of the negative being mitigated by adhering to the rule, "don't be a dick." When in doubt, pay them anyway. The complex positive…

It's really not the same as giving refunds to a customer. Keeping your customers happy is really important. Keeping your employees happy is also important. Keeping ex-employees happy is really not that important. Personally I might have paid it out, after all they got the referral so it's fair. But it's not MY company's money. In my experience as a games programmer bonuses were very rarely paid to people that left. The soul reason for them is employee retention and when the dude has gone he's gone.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#306

Post by wpietri »

dudeguy999 wrote: post #301
cletus wrote: post #130

"Name and shame" is a thorny issue. Opponents are right in the same way you shouldn't badmouth former employers in job interviewers. It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on. When companies screw you out of money, you should name and shame them (IMHO). Trust me, over the years I've probably lost out on all told $50,000 or more that people never paid. In some cases it…

>Failing to file a referral bonus form while you were an employee is really your fault. Congratulations, you're an asshole that I never want to work with.

Amen to that. Part of the job of a manager is to look out for the people doing the actual work. Taking ten large from a trusting employee is bad. Blaming the employee for leaving the cover sheet off his TPS reports is worse.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#307

Post by ww520 »

arbales wrote: post #297
fleitz wrote: post #77

Stop calling it a bonus, it isn't, it's payment for your services of recruitment. The offer came as part of a written agreement from an officer of the company in relation to the duties required by employees (adding the optional duty of recruitment) and their remuneration for performing said services (your payment for recruitment). Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Bonuses are when you receive additional pay for…

It actually /is/ a bonus – because you're already employed, and salaried, there's no obligation for your employeer to pay you more for services rendered. I'm no lawyer either, but Google seems to think "Referral Bonus" is a common thing.

Following that logic, a sales guy get paid with the minimum wage should not be paid with his sales commission and bonus for his additional service in getting additional sales.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#310

Post by veemjeem »

yoav wrote: post #96

This is like deciding to leave a company and emailing them a month later to make sure their product roadmap is still the same. The bonus was an incentive, which you clearly didn't care about because: a) you forgot about it, and b) you referred your friend who you would have referred anyway Making it "public" now is just vindictive. If you forgetting about your own bonus for months, and then another month after leavin…

The bonus was a legally binding contract. As long as statute of limitations has not passed, then the company is obligated to compensate according to contract. I guess you could wait 10 years, but if the company is no longer around, you probably wouldn't be able to get that 10k anymore.

If a company forgot to pay you your last paycheck after you left the company, would it still be wrong to ask for that paycheck a year later? That "bonus" was part of the compensation package, and would be no different than a paycheck lost in the mail.

Post reply on HN