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California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

cpuc.ca.gov

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Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#281

Post by tialaramex »

barbazoo wrote: post #152
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is public transport, but you mean mass transit. People don't use mass transit because it sucks, blaming other modes of public transit doesn't cut it. The design and implementation of it is what keeps people from using it. The good news is automated vehicles will add flexible options for new types of public transport that are between single-trip taxies and mass transit and will lower costs to all kinds of public…

> Waymo is public transport Is it? Doesn't "public transit" at least somewhat imply that it's a business that has to operate under the rules of some democratically elected institution? Waymo will ban you, price you differently based on who/where/when you are, etc. I wouldn't expect any of that from "public transit".

Yes, it's public transit. Public doesn't mean "there aren't any rules" it just means public. You can't light barbecues in my local public park, and the bloke who tried to knife a bus driver isn't allowed to ride the public buses here.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#282

Post by zht »

1024core wrote: post #277

Just yesterday, walking in the inner sunset neighborhood of SF, I saw an old lady in a 1980s Volvo come to a 4-way stop. She looked really old, as in probably even 90+. She wasn't sure about the rules of the stop sign: she came to the stop and was hesitating to go. Other cars were waiting for her and some of them started just going through, creating a very dangerous situation. Eventually she mustered the courage to j…

someone needs to get the seniors in and out of the cars...

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#283

Post by johnnyanmac »

NewJazz wrote: post #184
dangus wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the concerns rooted in statistical fact or just fear? Most people in the United States basically can’t imagine an alternative to car-first infrastructure.

Does it matter? If somebody is too afraid to ride the bus because they think they'll get raped, does the facts really matter? Or their feelings of physical insecurity?

>If somebody is too afraid to ride the bus because they think they'll get raped, does the facts really matter?

on a micro level, no. On a macro level, yes. People have individual fears, but those individual fears shouldn't influence the decision of multi billion dollar transport budgets. As cold as it sounds, injury or harm is built into the costs of such transportation.

With all that said, LA has indeed gotten much less safe, and public transportation has never really been "good", per se. On a micro level, I literally could not get within 2 miles of work from bus schedules one way, and 5 miles the other after work (back when work was in town). It wasted enough time that it would have been worth considering biking 15 miles a day instead of using a bus. If I wasn't in such poor shape it'd take almost the same time (which was double my driving commute).

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#284

Post by zht »

hacker_newz wrote: post #59
ra7 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the safe driving alone is a big improvement. Every time I get into an Uber, I hope and pray the driver isn’t aggressive and erratic. You always know what you’re going to get with a Waymo. Plus, nice and clean Jaguar I-Pace vehicles. No person to talk to and no tipping.

You trust an entity you can't interact with over a human being?

a car cannot rape me

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#285

Post by johnnyanmac »

deprecative wrote: post #86
simplicitea wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to ask the same thing; I have a hard time seeing the ways it ends up a net gain when driving is still a decent job for a lot of people, and rideshare drivers keep to themselves anyways

A car that can drive itself will always be the better option to the companies that can afford the market share. Nobody cares about how automation will remove jobs for folks. These things are important to note. Your opinion as a customer is secondary to the cost to the provider.

>Nobody cares about how automation will remove jobs for folks.

no one cares until it happens to them. I guess that attitude is part of the reason why this will succeed in the end.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#286

Post by flask_manager »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #111

Look at these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568066 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568226 That's the value-sell of self-driving cars: placating an anti-social techno-"patrician" class that fears people, a class who now has the luxury of avoiding them. Self…

I dont think you can create a high trust society deliberately; It takes multi-generation level time-spans, and in a low trust environment there is no mechanism to guarantee your plans will be carried forward; even if you currently have dictator level control over society.

Creating highly trustworthy technology is the best we can do, and reliable transportation is a big part of this.

I also suspect targeting and removing the worst interactions people have with strangers (and for many this is the random nature of a human driver, either from a taxi or other drivers) would create a higher trust society overall, as there is less cause to be wary.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#287

Post by jessriedel »

_acco wrote: post #117

I love Waymo and use it all the time. One aspect I'd still like to see them figure out: As a bike commuter, I share the road with Waymo often. When cycling, you're always checking the eyes of other drivers to confirm if they see you. I've had a couple incidents where I was a little thrown/unnerved because I couldn't confirm if a Waymo was registering me. It ultimately behaved fine, but I had to put my guard way up be…

They have tried many variations out, but so far they don't seem to think they work better than doing nothing. The only communication the Waymo's currently do it to signal that they are stopping for pedestrians, both to the pedestrians themselves and also to the cars behind.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/13/23913251/waymo-roof-dome...

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#288

Post by montag »

bragr wrote: post #227
_acco wrote: post #117

I love Waymo and use it all the time. One aspect I'd still like to see them figure out: As a bike commuter, I share the road with Waymo often. When cycling, you're always checking the eyes of other drivers to confirm if they see you. I've had a couple incidents where I was a little thrown/unnerved because I couldn't confirm if a Waymo was registering me. It ultimately behaved fine, but I had to put my guard way up be…

Joking, not joking: Cylon scanner [1] at the top the windscreen that locks on to you when it's giving way [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faukADr0_6g

Cylon + vehicle = KITT (Night Rider)

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#289

Post by bossyTeacher »

relativ575 wrote: post #249
Kronopath wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, it’s not compulsory. Socially and culturally, it definitely is. In the US, if you don’t tip 15%, you’re either an asshole, or you’re saying there’s severe issues with the service. I’m not going justify this culture—I don’t like it either—but that is the way it is.

I'm in the US and a frequent Uber users, and I've only tipped once over 10 years. My rating is 4.93, so I don't think the drivers see me as an asshole.

It is possible there exists a table called dbo.user_ratings with a boolean column called IsAsshole, and you might have tons of rows there all with a 1 on the boolean column but the Uber APIs don't return that value. CEO Travis could tell us if it exists

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#290

Post by johnnyanmac »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #237
Solvency wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like no one in this thread lives in LA. This is going to be an absolute catastrophe. Driving out here is like Thunderdome. There is zero way in hell I'd ever trust some Waymo car to make some insane left turn across 6 lanes of rush hour traffic out here, let alone the freeway.

I see it as a trial by fire. If Waymo can handle LA, it can handle anywhere (that doesn't have awful weather).

Fire indeed. Good luck to everyone else, but I won't be in that kitchen.
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