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California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

cpuc.ca.gov

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Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#111

Post by VoodooJuJu »

Look at these comments:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568066

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568076

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568083

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568119

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568226

That's the value-sell of self-driving cars: placating an anti-social techno-"patrician" class that fears people, a class who now has the luxury of avoiding them.

Self-driving cars seem to be a technological solution to a modern socio-cultural pathology, nothing more. That's not healthy. Seems like the better solution would be to address the pathology directly and eliminate it, rather than create workarounds for it.

How did you find yourself in a low-trust society, with anti-social leanings? And how can we fix that? That needs to be addressed.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#112

Post by hamandcheese »

standardUser wrote: post #70

I was very bummed on a recent trip to SF to find there was a waitlist for Waymo and I couldn't use the service! But I've since been 'accepted' so my next West Coast trip I'll definitely be taking a driverless car. I was a long time SF resident so I'll use my local knowledge to choose the most ratchet route possible. The potential for self-driving cars to bring down the cost of rides is very exciting to me. I've been…

For now, Waymo in SF costs significantly higher than Uber. I just checked and was quoted double - $25 to go from the outer richmond to Japantown.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#113

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dangus wrote: post #85
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something to note is that actual public transit (buses and trains) has something like 10x fewer annual deaths than private vehicles, because fatal accidents almost never happen in them. I've never had a fent zombie wave a knife in my face on private transit, but it has happened a couple of times on public transit. I get that it is technically "safer", but we have a long way to go before normal people will feel safe…

Did you get injured or die? 30,000 people die of car crashes every year, about half resulting from a much more common and legal drug. How many people die of assaults on public transit every year? I’ll let you look that one up. Fear isn’t the same as risk. Lots of people are afraid of planes. Not a single passenger died of as a result of a commercial airline incident last year in the United States.

No I didn't die, but I wasn't happy either. Enough that I feel like I have more control over my fate if I drive.

> Fear isn’t the same as risk.

I don't think you've ever had a knife waved at you by a crazy person before. Don't be an idiot, if something looks really dangerous, it probably is.

> How many people die of assaults on public transit every year? I’ll let you look that one up.

The first one this year in our city was just 4 days ago.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/man-fa...

That article also lists out recent violence on public transit in my city (like the guy hitting people with a hammer on the train). In comparison, 36 people were killed in car crashes in 2022, 28 in 2023.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#114

Post by gst »

hacker_newz wrote: post #59
ra7 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the safe driving alone is a big improvement. Every time I get into an Uber, I hope and pray the driver isn’t aggressive and erratic. You always know what you’re going to get with a Waymo. Plus, nice and clean Jaguar I-Pace vehicles. No person to talk to and no tipping.

You trust an entity you can't interact with over a human being?

After a total of 41 Waymo rides so far: Yes, absolutely.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#115

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

pjs_ wrote: post #97

I speak to VCs quite a bit and recently I was hanging around with a bunch of them, they were all making fun of the state of self-driving cars, ah, stupid industry, will never work, whatever. But to me it's strange, if you go to San Francisco today you can see cars driving around with nobody inside. They drive around, they pick people up, they mostly don't crash into shit. There's nobody behind the wheel. I know that…

> I agree that there's still endless work to do, some companies are probably behaving in a way that is dangerous, they aren't half as good as you want them to be, it's not clear whether they are good for society or financially viable etc. etc. but it just seems weird that so few people are willing to be like, "fair play, they basically pulled it off, round of applause", even just for a second.

They're victim of the self-driving hype machine, which is not entirely Waymo's fault. Lots of people and companies were really promising the world with self-driving cars after making the initial "novelty" proof of concept stuff possible. But now they're in the nitty gritty of actually making it safe, dependable, reliable, and trusted, in less than ideal conditions (or in non sunny California conditions at all) and people and companies are finding that it's far harder to follow through on that.

To Waymo's credit, they have been steadily plugging along without crazy marketing or PR to overhype their product. They just have to win the long-game, if they can.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#116

Post by [deleted] »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #84
matsemann wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While autonomous driving helps a bit on safety, that's just one of the many issues with the car dependence in our society. It might even expand the issues, if it ends up with less people using public transport and relying on these kinds of things.

Waymo is public transport, but you mean mass transit. People don't use mass transit because it sucks, blaming other modes of public transit doesn't cut it. The design and implementation of it is what keeps people from using it. The good news is automated vehicles will add flexible options for new types of public transport that are between single-trip taxies and mass transit and will lower costs to all kinds of public…

[deleted]

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#117

Post by _acco »

I love Waymo and use it all the time.

One aspect I'd still like to see them figure out:

As a bike commuter, I share the road with Waymo often. When cycling, you're always checking the eyes of other drivers to confirm if they see you.

I've had a couple incidents where I was a little thrown/unnerved because I couldn't confirm if a Waymo was registering me. It ultimately behaved fine, but I had to put my guard way up because I just couldn't tell.

I've wondered if they could use the light/display on top to signal acknowledgment? How do you simulate the precision of a gaze with a machine that's "seeing" everything at once?

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#118

Post by ilaksh »

kriiuuu wrote: post #65
gkoberger wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re much safer, and tech has already stolen from drivers (via 50% cuts). Yes, we do want safer transportation. Evolving as a society is important.

Show me indenpendant research that they are safer. I can’t find any.

They have been submitting data to the DMV for some time. Do you believe they are falsifying their data?

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#119

Post by Teever »

jmward01 wrote: post #100
singleshot_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t need to be given a numeric rating by my chauffeur on how well I sit in the back of a car. The social play-acting part of ridesharing apps became exhausting to me (admittedly: an introvert) sometime during the first ride.

I agree. Not everything in life needs to be a personal interaction. I just want to get from A to B. One of the reasons I like an actually functioning mass transit system is that you just get on and get off. Subways don't rate people (yet) and that is something I think good regulation could enforce here too. The problem is we have a long history of bad regulation when it comes to mass transit so we will see.

What makes you think that people who take Wayne rides aren't automatically rated?

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#120

Post by renewiltord »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #33
Kronopath wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In SF, up-front prices have been comparable to Uber’s, except that you don’t have to pay tip, which automatically makes it 15–20% cheaper. The few times I’ve tried it, the service has been good and its driving was safe. The only downside is that there seems to sometimes be longer wait times.

In europe, you don't pay tips to uber drivers. Surely, if the tip is compulsory, it should be called a service fee

I don't tip on Lyft. 5 stars. 800 rides.

I don't tip on Uber. 4.89 rating. 700 rides.

I have friends who tip and tbh when I don't get a ride, they don't get a ride and when they get a ride, I get a ride. So obviously the tipping means nothing.

Occasionally I might tip, but only if I got something out of it. And it's rare. I think I might have tipped on 10 out of the 1500 rides.

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