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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#741

Post by llm_trw »

whimsicalism wrote: post #572
delfinom wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC, NYU and Columbia University are increasingly owning larger parts of Manhattan because they as universities have massive property tax exemptions. There is a big push right now to terminate those exemptions which currently amount to over $300 million per year. At the same time they are getting these tax cuts, the CUNY public university system is struggling financially and getting budget cuts.

there are large positive externalities to major research unis. imposing a $300m/yr tax because of anti-ivy sentiment means net fewer researchers, grad students, funded residencies, etc. do people just no longer believe in win wins? if someone else is successful or impactful they must be taken down?

People believe in win/wins.

Universities aren't that.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#742

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

akerl_ wrote: post #676
reso wrote: post #657

It's clear that OpenAI has become something that it wasn't intended to be at it's founding. Maybe that change happened for good reasons, but the fact that there was a change is not in doubt.

Generally speaking, changing what your company does is just “pivoting”. It’s not clear to me why Elon would having standing for this suit, or why a company changing their direction would be actionable. This would be like suing Google for removing “Don’t be evil” from their mission statement.

If they started selling jelly beans, I would agree with you. But they changed from a non profit to a for profit model and from a open source to a closed source model. If they pivoted their product that would be one thing, but they completely shifted their mission.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#743

Post by Jensson »

Aloisius wrote: post #719
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Musk's tens of millions in donations were in reliance on the charter and on statements made by sama, Brockman, etc., there's probably a standing argument there. Musk is very different than you or I -- he's a co-founder of the company and was very involved in its early work. I wouldn't guess that standing would be the issue they'd have trouble with (though I haven't read the complaint).

I don't see how being a former co-founder or a donor gives one standing for this. He has no ownership stake. He isn't a director or member of the organization. The thing he claims is a contract he's party to, isn't.

Who else should sue OpenAI?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#744

Post by xcv123 »

WolfeReader wrote: post #262
tw600040 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

Either clueless or in denial. GPT-4 is already superior to the average human at many complex tasks.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#745

Post by littlestymaar »

Aloisius wrote: post #719
Matticus_Rex wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Musk's tens of millions in donations were in reliance on the charter and on statements made by sama, Brockman, etc., there's probably a standing argument there. Musk is very different than you or I -- he's a co-founder of the company and was very involved in its early work. I wouldn't guess that standing would be the issue they'd have trouble with (though I haven't read the complaint).

I don't see how being a former co-founder or a donor gives one standing for this. He has no ownership stake. He isn't a director or member of the organization. The thing he claims is a contract he's party to, isn't.

Not familiar with the US legal system at all, but in my country (France) a contact doesn't need to be signed or even on paper to be a contract. Saying “in exchange for your donation I'll abid to the charter” in front of witness is a contract under certain circumstances, so maybe there's something like this involved.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#746

Post by bamboozled »

vineyardmike wrote: post #669
qwertox wrote: post #658

Whatever his reason may be (like resentment for jumping off the ship too soon and missing out, or standing in for humanity), I like what I read in the sense that it contains all the stuff that needs to be spoken about publicly, and the court seems to be the optimal place for this. It feels like Microsoft is misusing the partnership only to block other companies from having access to the IP. They said they don't need…

> Not seeing Mistral Large as an open source model now has a bitter taste to it. A company needs a product to sell. If they give away everything, they have nothing to sell. This was surely always the plan. (1) They can give away the model but sell an API - but they can’t serve a model as cheap as Goog/Msft/Amzn who have better unit economics on their cloud and better pricing on GPUs (plus custom inference chips). (2)…

See The Linux Foundation, they don’t seem to have this problem.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#747

Post by therouwboat »

gridspy wrote: post #726
croes wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Musk,'s warning about the dangers of AI but then he released one too.

The only real defense against dangerous AI is friendly AI.

If anyone is going to make AI that wants to destroy humans, its elon musk.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#748

Post by [deleted] »

qwertox wrote: post #658

Whatever his reason may be (like resentment for jumping off the ship too soon and missing out, or standing in for humanity), I like what I read in the sense that it contains all the stuff that needs to be spoken about publicly, and the court seems to be the optimal place for this. It feels like Microsoft is misusing the partnership only to block other companies from having access to the IP. They said they don't need…

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#749

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

seydor wrote: post #609
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #580

Any competent lawyer is going to get Musk on the stand reiterating his opinions about the danger of AI. If the tech really is dangerous then being more closed arguably is in the public's best interest, and this is certainly the reason OpenAI have previously given. Not saying I agree that being closed source is in the public good, although one could certainly argue that accelerating the efforts of bad actors to catch…

Then the foundational document of openAi is Self-contradictory

Perhaps, but who knew? Nobody at that time knew how to build AGI, and what it therefore might look like. I'm sure people would have laughed at you if you said "predict next word" was the path to AGI. The transformer paper that kicked off the LLM revolution would not be written for another couple of years. DeepMind was still focusing on games, with AlphaGo also still a couple of years away.

OpenAI's founding charter was basically we'll protect you from an all-powerful Google, and give you the world's most valuable technology for free.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#750

Post by littlestymaar »

andruby wrote: post #686
amou234 wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk: actual billionaire Sam Altman: fake billionaire (most equity is tied to openAI) this should be a one sided battle

Most of Elon’s wealth is also tied up in equity.

He was liquid enough to buy Twitter on a whim though.
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