Well this will be an interesting circus for sure. Musk isn’t exactly batting 1000 vs other large tech companies in lawsuits but openAI sure as hell has done some sketchy bs
Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
271–280 of 1001 posts
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#272There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.
i'm not disagreeing with you that going from non-profit to for-profit should be challenged, but doesn't openai still maintain their non-profit? they just added a for-profit "arm" (whatever that means).
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Specific performance is a last resort. In contract law, the bias is towards making the plaintiff whole, and frequently there are many ways to accomplish that (like paying money) instead of making the defendant specifically honor the terms of the original agreement.
Not sure about English law but in Roman law (and derived systems as in South Africa) the emphasis is on specific performance as a first resort — the court will seek to implement the intention of the parties embodied in the contract as far as possible. Cancellation is a last resort.
> Not sure about English law but in Roman law
This is actually American law, neither English nor Roman. While it is derived from English common law, it has an even stronger bias against specific performance (and in fact bright-line prohibits some which would be allowed in the earlier law from which it evolved, because of the Constitutional prohibition on involuntary servitude.)
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the world’s richest man sues you, being a saint wouldn't be a reliable defence.
Wait, Bernard Arnault is suing them too?
Jokes are downvoted on HN but the statement is accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Billionaires
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#275Has Musk at least been able to profit from the $50-100MM he put in?
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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know how comparable it would be, but I imagine if I donated $44 million to a university under the agreement that they would use the money in a particular way (e.g. to build a specific building or to fund a specific program) and then the university used the money in some other way, I feel I ought to have some standing to sue them. Of course, this all depends on the investment details specified in a contract an…
Yeah - Had you donated the funds as "restricted funding" in the nonprofit parlance, they would have a legal requirement to use the funds as you had designated. It seems that Musk contributed general non-restricted funding so the nonprofit can more or less do what they want with the money.. Not saying there's no case here, but if he really wanted them to do something specific, there's a path for that to happen and tha…
A non-profit is obligated to use any donated funds for its stated non-profit purpose. Restricted donations are further limited.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#277[dead]
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#278There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.
This. Even when we ignore the whole ethical aspect of "AI for benefit of humanity" and all that philosophic stuff, there are very real legal reasons why OpenAI should never have been allowed to switch to for profit. They were only able to circumvent this with their new dual company structure, but this should still not be legal.
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know how comparable it would be, but I imagine if I donated $44 million to a university under the agreement that they would use the money in a particular way (e.g. to build a specific building or to fund a specific program) and then the university used the money in some other way, I feel I ought to have some standing to sue them. Of course, this all depends on the investment details specified in a contract an…
Yeah - Had you donated the funds as "restricted funding" in the nonprofit parlance, they would have a legal requirement to use the funds as you had designated. It seems that Musk contributed general non-restricted funding so the nonprofit can more or less do what they want with the money.. Not saying there's no case here, but if he really wanted them to do something specific, there's a path for that to happen and tha…
Moreover, they probably did spend the $44m on what he wanted. That was a long time ago...
Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]
#280I don't even particularly like Musk, but I definitely despise M$ and their comic-book tier villanous shenanigans even more. Here's to hoping M$ gets fucked in this.
Musk is even more cartoonishly villainous than MS. This is pretty much Lex Luthor against Darkseid. Unless it results in mutual destruction, doesn't matter who wins, everybody else loses.
My take is that Elon is suing OpenAI because he left OpenAI before they opened a commercial venture, which means he doesn't benefit from the companies current valuation, so he's using the courts to try to strong arm the foundation into giving him some shares, basically using the courts for harassment purposes.
I'm hoping for both to get fucked, and if this takes this whole "AI" hype away with them, so much the better.