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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#41
post #13

AI is going to continue to have incremental progress, particularly now in hardware gains. No one can even define what AGI is or what it will look like, let alone be something that OpenAI would own? Features progress is too incremental to suddenly pop out with "AGI". Fighting about it seems a distraction.

There's also no reason to believe that incremental progress in transformer models will eventually lead to "AGI".

Yes, but I think everyone would agree that the chance isn't 0%

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a donor to the OpenAi non-profit organization.

A donor usually is only able to say how his donation will be used. For example, if you donate to Harvard University, you can say the money will be earmarked for scholarships, but you don't get a say on how the university is managed. You can at best say you will no longer donate based on how the university is managed.

What about: "I want you to earmark this for open source AI research, and not R&D specifically aimed at making profits"

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#43

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

if you're not profitable, there should be no tax advantage, right?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#44

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

I completely agree. AGI is an existential threat, but the real meat of this lawsuit is ensuring that you can't let founders have their cake and eat it like this. what's the point of a non-profit if they can simply pivot to making profit the second they have something of value? the answer is that there is none, besides dishonesty.

it's quite sad that the American regulatory system is in such disrepair that we could even get to this point. that it's not the government pulling OpenAI up on this bare-faced deception, it's a morally-questionable billionaire

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#45

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

once it converts into profit-seeking venture, it won't get the tax benefits

one could argue that they did R&D as a non-profit and now converted to for-profit to avoid paying taxes, but until last year R&D already got tax benefits to even for-profit venture

so there really is no tax-advantage of converting a non-profit to for-profit

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A donor usually is only able to say how his donation will be used. For example, if you donate to Harvard University, you can say the money will be earmarked for scholarships, but you don't get a say on how the university is managed. You can at best say you will no longer donate based on how the university is managed.

You can sue for basically any reason in the US. If Musk is able to prove they are mishandling the money, which I think is debatable, then the case can proceed. Just because you donate money doesn’t mean the charity or nonprofit (or whatever OpenAi is), can do as they like. They may still be committing fraud if they are not using the money in the way that they claim.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A donor usually is only able to say how his donation will be used. For example, if you donate to Harvard University, you can say the money will be earmarked for scholarships, but you don't get a say on how the university is managed. You can at best say you will no longer donate based on how the university is managed.

You can sue for basically any reason in the US. If Musk is able to prove they are mishandling the money, which I think is debatable, then the case can proceed. Just because you donate money doesn’t mean the charity or nonprofit (or whatever OpenAi is), can do as they like. They may still be committing fraud if they are not using the money in the way that they claim.

Don't you have to have some sort of standing in the lawsuit? If you don't directly suffer harm, I thought you'd have to convince the government to prosecute them instead?

(Not a lawyer, obviously.)

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#48
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would he have standing by having a company competing in the same space as OpenAI?

He would have the opposite of a standing, right? It seems he wants to slow down OpenAI so that his competing company can catch up.

I mean, if I run a fridge company and another fridge company is doing something nefarious, I'd have more of a claim for damages than someone that runs a blender company, right? That's at least my layperson's interpretation. Since Musk is suing for "unfair business practices".

I also found this: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...

>Representative of its remedial objectives, the [Unfair Competition Law] originally granted standing to "any person" suing on behalf of "itself, its members, or on behalf of the general public." This prompted a public outcry over perceived abuses of the UCL because the UCL granted standing to plaintiffs without requiring them to show any actual injury. In response, California voters approved Proposition to amend the UCL to require that the plaintiff prove injury from the unfair practice. Despite this stricter standing requirement, both business competitors and consumers may still sue under the UCL.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#49
post #3

[flagged]

He was probably high on something when the idea that AGI competes with Nerolink came to him. You know, the same way he decided trains are evil because they competes with his cars.

You sure don't want artifical intelligence on chips competing with natural intelligence you ise as your chips, do you?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#50

Allowing startups to begin as non-profits for tax benefits, only to 'flip' into profit-seeking ventures is a moral hazard, IMO. It risks damaging public trust in the non-profit sector as a whole. This lawsuit is important

I think the public already considers non-profit = scam.

I don't think the public is quite that cynical, broadly. Certainly most people consider some non-profits to be scams, and some (few, I'd reckon) consider most to be scams. But I think most people have a positive association with non-profits as a whole.
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