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Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

lamplightdev.com

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Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#51

Post by taf2 »

mg wrote: post #4

At the core, this seems to be about shadowrootmode=open, a new html feature which already landed in Chromium and Safari: This is and sunny funny renders as: This is funny and sunny So it looks like HTML got a bit of a native template system now. What I have been wanting for decades is a native template system in HTML which supports urls. Similar the the script tag, but which loads html: I always wondered why this was…

That was like what ESI (Edge Side Includes) allowed from Akamai. Perhaps had the founder[1] of Akamai not been killed in the world trade towers we'd have had that in the standard...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Lewin

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#52

Post by ndriscoll »

mg wrote: post #4

At the core, this seems to be about shadowrootmode=open, a new html feature which already landed in Chromium and Safari: This is and sunny funny renders as: This is funny and sunny So it looks like HTML got a bit of a native template system now. What I have been wanting for decades is a native template system in HTML which supports urls. Similar the the script tag, but which loads html: I always wondered why this was…

xslt is a native template system that has includes:

xhtml/xslt still works today (though browsers are stuck on v1). It's a declarative template system with a pretty powerful pattern matching system (xpath). You can also extract fragments from external documents or store them into variables. e.g. will copy all urls from a list inside the 2nd div. Or instead of second div in the body, you could search for a div with an id or specific attributes or specific children or whatever pattern you want.

Why webdevs forsook xml will always be a mystery to me. Particularly given that they now use things like JSX.

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#53

Post by mhitza »

mg wrote: post #4

At the core, this seems to be about shadowrootmode=open, a new html feature which already landed in Chromium and Safari: This is and sunny funny renders as: This is funny and sunny So it looks like HTML got a bit of a native template system now. What I have been wanting for decades is a native template system in HTML which supports urls. Similar the the script tag, but which loads html: I always wondered why this was…

Probably because HTML specs were quasi frozen for a long time. As another comment said, XSLT supports it. XHTML conformance would have made the web development world stricter, and more flexible. Thank you Microsoft for holding the web back.

There are also [Server Side Includes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes) which were used for that.

Funny enough, I've used SSIs first and last time around 2020. The project I worked on had a heavily cached landing page (for performance reasons), but needed a way to swap out the homepage banners based on product releases, and the easiest way around that was to output a SSI directive for a separate banners endpoint.

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#54

Post by politelemon »

This helped me with a 'visual' understanding of what's happening, go to

view-source:https://ooo.lamplightdev.workers.dev/

then watch the bottom of the page as the new `` elements come in. As they come in, the browser's, well, slotting the contents into the corresponding slot in the template.

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#56

Post by Pwntheon »

ndriscoll wrote: post #52
mg wrote: post #4

At the core, this seems to be about shadowrootmode=open, a new html feature which already landed in Chromium and Safari: This is and sunny funny renders as: This is funny and sunny So it looks like HTML got a bit of a native template system now. What I have been wanting for decades is a native template system in HTML which supports urls. Similar the the script tag, but which loads html: I always wondered why this was…

xslt is a native template system that has includes: xhtml/xslt still works today (though browsers are stuck on v1). It's a declarative template system with a pretty powerful pattern matching system (xpath). You can also extract fragments from external documents or store them into variables. e.g. will copy all urls from a list inside the 2nd div. Or instead of second div in the body, you could search for a div with an…

I can only speak for myself, but the few times I encountered xslt in the past it was in the context of bulky and verbose SOAP services. The syntax felt off to me (and still do).

I think this was at the time I was learning jquery and using css selector syntax for finding elements, and the difference between that and xpath was pretty stark.

I basically (probably with insufficient knowledge) filed xslt away with vb and tables for formatting as old, complex and soon to be replaced

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#57

Post by gtroja »

iolo wrote: post #20
gtroja wrote: post #17

[flagged]

> It's worth noting though that there's no dependency on a JavaScript backend - the same thing can be achieved on PHP, Java, Go, etc. The only Javascript in the article is on the server side to handle the HTTP.

Javascript is being used to stream the HTML. the title is "Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript"

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#58

Post by gtroja »

ghusbands wrote: post #22
gtroja wrote: post #17

[flagged]

The Javascript code in the article is server-side and not essential - it's just one way to take advantage of open shadowrootnodes and it could be written in PHP or anything else. It's showing how you can output your HTML in a very different order, with arbitrary delays, and still get the page layout you expect.

Javascript is being used to stream the HTML. the title is "Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript"

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#59

Post by spankalee »

mg wrote: post #4

At the core, this seems to be about shadowrootmode=open, a new html feature which already landed in Chromium and Safari: This is and sunny funny renders as: This is funny and sunny So it looks like HTML got a bit of a native template system now. What I have been wanting for decades is a native template system in HTML which supports urls. Similar the the script tag, but which loads html: I always wondered why this was…

Firefox supports declarative shadow DOM too now!

There's a long-standing WHATWG feature request open for client-side includes here: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2791

And several userland custom element implementation, like https://www.npmjs.com/package//html-include-element

One of the cool things that you can do with client-side includes and shadow DOM is render the included HTML into a shadow root that has s, so that the child content of the include element is slotted into a shell implemented by the included HTML.

This lets you do things like have the main page be the per-page content and the included HTML be a heavily cached site-wide shell, and then another per-user include with personalized HTML - all cached appropriately.

Re: Streaming HTML out of order without JavaScript

#60

Post by spankalee »

troupo wrote: post #23
hiimshort wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last example reminds me of the once-proposed html imports feature. It was being pushed by Google back when Polymer was a thing and would've given us actual web components delivered as html documents with full support for html, css, and js just like we use normally. If I remember correctly there were a few issues with the approach that needed to be resolved and nobody stepped up to make it a reality. So instead we…

In the end it was only Firefox who implemented HTML Imports, and Google has gone mad and pushed everything in to Javascript.

That is not what happened at all. Firefox never shipped HTML Imports.
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