Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu • Hacker News Board

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#701

Post by boomboomsubban » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 4:50 AM UTC

daurnimator wrote: post #698

ab5tract wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is as nonsensical as the user agent strings themselves. It's not copy protection. It may change the structure and content of the page that is sent but that is not copy protection.

> It's not copy protection. It may change the structure and content of the page that is sent but that is not copy protection. It is though! Often news websites use the user agent to detect e.g. the google crawler, and allow google to index the contents of news articles; but then throw up a paywall when anyone with a normal browser shows up. I recall some news websites tried to threaten people making browser extension…

>recall some news websites tried to threaten people making browser extensions with the DMCA/CFAA as they considered it working around their copy protection to illegally gain access to their content.

Source? I spent two minutes looking and failed to find anything like that, hardly an exhaustive search though.

Hard to argue a user agent could be DRM though, considering it's a string I the user send to the website.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#702

Post by hellotomyrars » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 5:09 AM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #700

hellotomyrars wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of `the strategy working` absolutely not, for the reasons previously listed. I wouldn’t argue the WiiU doesn’t have a unique approach to system design and I never did.

you're attempting to say "failure" without saying failure due to my previous comment. you've been backed into a corner, you don't have a leg to stand on here. if you're curious about my response, just re-read my comment that caused you to try and dress up the word failure in different clothing. Here, I'll link it to you and let you loop. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=PH95VuimJjqBqy&next=... you can break ou…

Okay. You disagree with the assessment of the Wii U, including that of Nintendo themselves. That is fine. I’m not trying to say failure without saying failure. I stand by everything I said.

Have a nice day, genuinely.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#703

Post by cylemons » Fri, Mar 01, 2024, 10:06 AM UTC

bakugo wrote: post #54

I hope Nintendo loses because it would be extremely harmful to emulation and software freedom as a whole if they didn't, but at the same time, I hope this knocks the whole "for-profit emulator" practice down a peg for a while. I think this is the same emulator that at one point tried asking people to pay a monthly subscription to play online.

Well in the famous Sony vs Bleem case in which Bleem won, Bleem was a fully commercial company selling their emulators. It's just that they created it in such a way that you still needed to own the ps1 game disk and insert it into your dreamcast.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#704

Post by bdhcuidbebe » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 3:44 PM UTC

tuetuopay wrote: post #670

bdhcuidbebe wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not true, just grab a copy of firmware files online and be gtg. its just yuzus docs thats written in such a way, most likely to avoid nintendo suing them…

By "online" do you mean a random ROM website, or any Yuzu provided/hosted/whatever page? I.E. are they linked to such firmware and key redistribution? I was under the impression there was no affiliation, but I may be wrong there. By affiliation I mean something like hosted on the same server but officially unlinked, not obvious affiliations. If a core maintainer redistributing them on their personal website.

i mean a random website, can be found with google

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#705

Post by bdhcuidbebe » Sat, Mar 02, 2024, 3:46 PM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #672

bdhcuidbebe wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, piracy is piracy, thats why we use that specific word.

Pirates steal. That’s why they call them pirates.

yea. and copyright lawyers used this word piracy to confuse people

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#706

Post by a_vanderbilt » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 5:23 AM UTC

GabrielTFS wrote: post #641

a_vanderbilt wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also fully their fault the game was leaked early. They released the game carts to buyers too early, and their system5 crypto scheme was already broken by the time the game came out. Yuzu didn't break system5, nor do they ship the keys needed to decrypt the dumped game files. They did release patches which specifically fixed issues with Zelda, and that wasn't a good look legally - but it isn't illegal to fix ina…

I have not heard of anything indicating they themselves released patches fixing issues with ToTK - only that other people made patches for that which the Yuzu team refused to accept until ToTK release. I don't see how random people making patches for an open source project should make the project liable for the existence of the patches.

That's a great clarification. I think you bring up a great point.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#707

Post by a_vanderbilt » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 5:27 AM UTC

ambichook wrote: post #676

a_vanderbilt wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the "Switch 2" is going to be like the GameCube -> Wii, where the hardware is backward compatible and largely just a faster version of the previous generation. Essentially being a suped-up Switch means Yuzu could immediately work much better with whatever they come out with next. I think that is why they are going after Yuzu now, to try and get ahead of another Dolphin situation occurring much earlier…

has nvidia worked on the architecture behind the tegra in the last few years? i'm not certain that's possible tbh

I primarily work with implementing high-level CUDA, which enjoys a lot of attention. My impression is that while breaking changes exist, they are worth the effort to port forward. I cannot tell you how they treat game designers, but my perspective is that it is unfortunately still way ahead of ROCm. I could see Nintendo making it work for the titles they deem strategically worthy.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#708

Post by theshackleford » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 7:11 AM UTC

yungporko wrote: post #648

theshackleford wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe your understanding of what common users are capable of are wildly out of date. Switch games are available as one click installers now, compete with game and emulator.

it isn't. the average person doesn't even own a computer, ease of installation doesn't matter when you still have to own a computer powerful enough to run the emulator and also find roms.

I know plenty of normies who own computers. What are you talking about? It's not 1996 my dude. Also pro tip, plenty of people emulate on their other devices as well and equally have no problem finding either emulators, or roms. I was doing this stuff when I was a child, i'm in my late 30's now. None of this is rocket science and it hasnt been for a long time.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#709

Post by m-p-3 » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 6:28 PM UTC

ursa_solaris wrote: post #653

jsheard wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct, Yuzu doesn't include the keys, but is there any precedent that "bring your own keys" actually works as a loophole around the DMCA circumvention rules? I'm not aware of it ever being tested, so it's unclear whether it would actually hold up in a case where the softwares express purpose is to consume keys for the purpose of circumventing DRM. Back when the movie industry was going after DVD ripping tool…

To my knowledge the keys are just standard RSA-2048 keys. It's not illegal for a program to support RSA-2048, and it is no concern of the program or its developers where I get my keys from. I could just as easily use these keys in any other program. Even if in some foolish way they made it illegal for Yuzu to support industry standard decryption algorithms in this specific kind of program, then Yuzu would simply requ…

So the solution for Nintendo would be to take a risk and make their own encryption scheme?

That way just trying to support that prorietary encryption scheme in the emulator would be enough to run afoul of the DMCA.

But then, as a workaround I could see the proprietary encryption code being supported as an addon (ie: DLL file) that you can just drop in, without distributing it with the emulator itself and letting the users search for it on the digital high seas.