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Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

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Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#951
post #288

This reminds me of the oil curse. After a country discovers it has lots of oil, it nukes every other sector of their economy. Why? Because there's nothing you can invest your money in which would give you a larger return than oil. It sucks the lifeblood out of every other sector. Apple just didn't invest in its electric cars enough to let them develop it fast enough, and now with China coming online, the window of op…

To be clear, Intel aren't moving away from uarch design. Gelsinger has stated the economics of their fab business don't make sense without a large guaranteed customer like their processor business.[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PrmrMQ9gJU&t=637s (Ian Interviews: Pat Gelsinger, Intel CEO)

Of course they are not going to announce they are getting out of CPUs before their new business is fully in place!! Everyone would instantly stop buying Intel CPUs and their revenue would go to zero.

But make no mistake, Intel knows when to hold 'em and knows when to fold 'em. You heard it here first.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#952

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but a cell phone and a computer are close cousins. A car and a cell phone, or anything Apple has yet made, are wildly different. They may as well have had a battle tank program, or started making airplanes. Those things have screens and "infotainment systems" too.

> Yeah but a cell phone and a computer are close cousins. Were they really close cousins in 2006?

In 2006, yes. J2ME apps were already fairly broadly supported by feature phones and somewhat popular.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#953
post #29
post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

The problem is that smartphones had very little consumer uptake before the iPhone came out.

You had your Windows Mobile and Symbian devices, which were popular among hardcore turbonerds, but normies weren't interested in them. And that goes double for the US; there was more uptake of WinMo and Symbian in Europe, but very little in Apple's home market. The closest thing to a "normie" smartphone before the iPhone was BlackBerry, but most people who had one were business users who had their device issued and provisioned by their employer. And enthusiasts always pooh-poohed BlackBerries as "not a real smartphone" because it was basically just a messaging and groupware beast with limited general-purpose capabilities.

So there was a big gap to be filled. Enthusiasts had their market segment, business users had their market segment, but the ordinary consumers had nothing. And Apple gladly swooped in to fill this gap.

The problem is that cars are already ubiquitous, especially in the US. What can an iCar offer that a Toyota can't? Hell, even if you specify electric cars, other companies still have this covered. What can Apple offer that Tesla can't? And if you look internationally, it's even worse. You start selling electric cars outside the US market, you're going to end up going head-to-head with Chinese giants like BYD that are already kicking Tesla's ass outside the US.

The only real path forward for an iCar that does to cars what the iPhone did to phones is if Apple were to perfect true Level 5 self-driving. If they could actually pull off "Siri, take me to work", it would change things enough that normal cars would look like dumbphones compared to the iCar. But that's a pipe dream. Our roads are too chaotic for Level 5 to be feasible for a long, long time. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the reason this project lasted a whole decade was because Apple was throwing everything they had at Level 5 self-driving, and they canned it because after an entire decade they still couldn't make it work.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. People who are into cars as status items (which encompasses car enthusiasts, because lets be real, very few of those people who are into "performance" even touch 50% of the cars capability on public roads). This is your BMW/Porsche and other buyers. I don't disagree with what you're probably trying to say here, but I disagree with how you're stating it. First, "car enthusiast" != "performance enthusiast". There…

I don't think that changes the parent's point at all. Whether the focus of your enthusiasm and status is performance or luxury is irrelevant if you're spending more than you "need" to for your vehicle. It's like custom PCs - some go for EATX systems with Threadripper and dual graphics cards and NVMe RAID 0 while others go for 4L ITX systems or fanless configs. But a Dell tower is functionally very similar. Someone bu…

Yes, that's what I was recognizing in my first sentence.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#955

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unusual , but in a remarkably boring way.

A prop from a 1980s sci-fi "b movie"

Yes, this is precisely why I love the design so much. I've been waiting for an "edgy" non-smooth car since the '88 Sentra...and here it finally is. Thank you Elon and Tesla, yall remain the only car maker with a sense of humor.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#956
post #29
post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

>To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola

Not true. I helped cover Apple for a large investment bank before and after iPhone's launch. If anything, Apple was the one company that had the technology and market credibility to immediately make a splash in the market despite being totally foreign to it.

>and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

We did think that there was a real possibility of Apple launching its phone in conjunction with an MVNO. But this was again out of belief that Apple had the credibility to immediately have millions of customers switch to it as their carrier, not because Apple—of all companies—could not get what it wanted from carriers.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median American may be, however

So strange to see this Reddit meme make its way to HN. The median American absolutely isn't struggling for food, lmfao.

Coincidence, I'm afraid; I am not familiar with such a meme. Merely observing that the median American has a household income only about 75% that of the average American, and therefore spends proportionally more of the household budget on groceries, thus feeling the 25% increase in grocery prices over the last four years rather more keenly. Whether that constitutes "struggle" seems like it must be a personal judgement.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#958

To be honest, I'm not sure what Apple could've brought to the table in regards to making an electric car. Apple's hardware design philosophies[1] don't really align with what consumers want in a car. Apple being less minimalistic than a Tesla — which is already at an extreme — is a hard sell. [1] Examples of what I mean: - Cars use faux materials all the time for cost and weight purposes, or even just looks (i.e. fak…

> I'm not sure what Apple could've brought to the table in regards to making an electric car

I, for instance, would love a minimalistic, self driving, electric car that just works. With wireless charging - no cables. That I can just hop in, say “Hey Siri, take me to target,” and it announces the current weather in Taipei; provided by the Weather Channel.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#960

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I know why GM and the others fear CarPlay and Android Auto, but it's just so dumb to me. It makes sense for companies like Netflix to shy away from the Apple "walled garden." They want to deliver a unique experience with exclusive content, not just be another content supplier to the Apple experience. They don't want to wind up like the record companies. But car manufacturers? There's a whole lot of stuff goin…

From my past discussions with car executives (that are ~10 years old so grain of salt), I really do think it’s as simple as that recurring infotainment subscription revenue. The small margin GM gets on its cars is buffered by the revenue splits it gets with Sirius XM and the various call for assistance services. Sirius revenue is on the decline because everyone listens to Spotify on their phone. The GPS revenue strea…

    The thing is, if GM just made a $30 a month connected car 
    subscription package to unlock Car Play and 5G assistance 
    or whatever, I think they’d sell tons of it. People would 
    complain but I know that I would pay the money in a second 
    versus trying to pair my phone with a non-Car Play infotainment system
Would you pay it, or just avoid GM?

I really can't imagine significant numbers of people paying for it and I don't know that a 5G bundle makes any sense. I don't understand why anybody would want their car to have it's own 5G connection when they already have their 5G phone in their pocket.

Even my elderly borderline-technophobe parents are able to understand (with some effort) the concept of CarPlay since it's more or less the existing phone interface that they're used to.

Maybe the real killer issue is that on one hand, clearly many people value CarPlay enough to pay for it. But it has always been free, and will continue to be free from quite a few other auto makers, and that's a big obstacle to getting anybody to pay for it. That has historically been difficult for any sort of good or service...

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