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Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

bartvanzon.com

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Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#101

Post by ethermal »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #82
axefrog wrote: post #3

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple still can do no wrong, most people now use Macs "if they know what's good for them", RoR, node.js and Python are really the only valid technologies for back end development and so forth. Certainly plenty of folks out there using the aforementioned technologies a…

For me the point is less about: IE is no longer that bad. It's true that IE9 and IE10 are much better and supporting IE is no longer a 2x web-dev penalty, but that's not the point. The point is: when the vampire is exhibiting weakness you drive a stake through its heart. The vampire turned a bunch of your fellow townspeople into vampires; saying the bite is no longer so bad doesn't mean that the vampire is now to be…

So why would you sort it in FF then open IE why wouldn't you start with IE then go to FF. I really think you are starting in the wrong spot.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#102

Post by decode »

axefrog wrote: post #79
dlikhten wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of FUD style arguments please let me elaborate: a) Developing on windows is absolutely attrocious. If MS wants me to develop on windows, PUT SOME FUCKING EFFORT INTO IT. b) Developing for Chrome, I support ALL operating systems. c) Developing for FF, I support ALL operating systems. d) Developing for Opera, I support ALL operating systems. e) Developing for Safari, I support OSX, Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8…

Your blinders are industrial grade. Developing for Windows is in fact a pleasure. MS have more love for their development community than you realise, and this is reflected in the tools and technology they provide. .Net is incredible. Really. > IE 9 is only supported IN WINDOWS 7 Supporting WebKit in iOS requires me to BUY AN IPAD just to test properly! Supporting WebKit on Android requires me to buy an Android phone…

> PowerShell, the current standard shell for modern Windows version is really powerful. Get with the times.

Do you actually use PowerShell as an interactive console on a daily basis? When I tried to learn it, it seemed powerful for scripting, but nearly impossible to use interactively. I ended up using bash under cygwin, because it seemed to be the best option available.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#103

Post by chris_wot »

bartj3 wrote: post #16
givan wrote: post #7

In some cases, not supporting IE is like a filter, if you offer a web service that involves some web tech background from users then it will save you some support hours, people that don't understand basic stuff like what a browser is can be a pain for support or probably would never signup either.

True, and that is probably the case for Paydirt, but there's a difference between not supporting and actively blocking. Less than 2% of Paydirt's visitors use IE, so dropping support is a logical choice. Maybe even display a warning to IE users but don't block them.

You haven't given an actual reason why they shouldn't block IE users. Could you explain why that is?

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#104

Post by perssontm »

rickmb wrote: post #96
axefrog wrote: post #3

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple still can do no wrong, most people now use Macs "if they know what's good for them", RoR, node.js and Python are really the only valid technologies for back end development and so forth. Certainly plenty of folks out there using the aforementioned technologies a…

I tried to encourage my team to test better against IE by creating a nice setup on which they could easily use all relevant IE versions. After two days of struggling with all the insanity of Windows licensing, installing and the crap support for running older / multiple versions of IE I've seen more than enough of Microsoft for the next five years. Nothing has changed since 2000. Just setting up the tools for support…

Just get an account at www.crossbrowsertesting.com . I did around 2 years back I think, and its really convenient. you vnc to whatever os/browser combo you like and test it out. They have a demo for local testing as well, but I've always used a reverse ssh tunnel for that.

Note, Im not affiliated with crossbrowsertesting.com in any way.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#105

Post by nicholassmith »

masklinn wrote: post #45
stutter wrote: post #31

You don't have comments on your blog, so I'll comment here: IE testing is "hard" on a Mac because of the vm requirement, yes. However, that's not even my main issue. If Microsoft facilitated having VMs of each windows installation + browser version available for that OS to developers, it'd still be "hard" but at least they'd be helping. IE only runs on Windows, so if you want to test for Windows you have a bunch of s…

> If Microsoft facilitated having VMs of each windows installation + browser version available for that OS to developers Which they do, they've been offering complete VM images with various combinations of Windows and IE for some time, the current offering is XP + IE6, Vista + IE7, Win7 + IE8 and Win7 + IE9: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=1157... While the images are for VirtualPC, I've yet t…

Just to say I'd not come across the MS created VM images, so thumbs up for making my life a lot nicer!

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#106

Post by ivanbernat »

grabastic wrote: post #95
white_devil wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never come across a IE-specific issue that took longer than 5 minutes to resolve, and 99% of the time my markup worked without any "hacks" at all. Now that's a flat-out lie right there.

Or it's the truth and his ~450 projects have been of low to medium css/js complexity. Or even high complexity and he got really, really, really lucky.

I'd say 80% of all projects were done within 24hrs (standard delivery time) while other projects were 40-page multy-style apps (mostly custom "CRM" solutions). Heck, I even had requests do make the markup IE6-only.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#107

Post by jneen »

FWIW, as a Linux user I have the same problem with Safari. But thankfully it uses the same rendering engine as Chrome, so I can be relatively sure that if it works in one, it works in the other.

IE is another can of worms.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#109

Post by robertpateii »

CoffeeDregs wrote: post #82
axefrog wrote: post #3

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple still can do no wrong, most people now use Macs "if they know what's good for them", RoR, node.js and Python are really the only valid technologies for back end development and so forth. Certainly plenty of folks out there using the aforementioned technologies a…

For me the point is less about: IE is no longer that bad. It's true that IE9 and IE10 are much better and supporting IE is no longer a 2x web-dev penalty, but that's not the point. The point is: when the vampire is exhibiting weakness you drive a stake through its heart. The vampire turned a bunch of your fellow townspeople into vampires; saying the bite is no longer so bad doesn't mean that the vampire is now to be…

So you're saying that it's not about punishing the criminals, that it's about deterring people from becoming criminals.

It's arguable if that kind of policy is effective.

Also, it comes across like folks actually are still mad about it.

Re: Supporting IE Is Too Much Work

#110

Post by axefrog »

rickmb wrote: post #96
axefrog wrote: post #3

I honestly think a lot of hacker types really do live in a bubble where they think it's still 2000, Microsoft is still the same evil company they were, Apple still can do no wrong, most people now use Macs "if they know what's good for them", RoR, node.js and Python are really the only valid technologies for back end development and so forth. Certainly plenty of folks out there using the aforementioned technologies a…

I tried to encourage my team to test better against IE by creating a nice setup on which they could easily use all relevant IE versions. After two days of struggling with all the insanity of Windows licensing, installing and the crap support for running older / multiple versions of IE I've seen more than enough of Microsoft for the next five years. Nothing has changed since 2000. Just setting up the tools for support…

What I have trouble with is why that's valid when on the reverse side of the coin, one must literally buy Apple hardware to test in an Apple environment.
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