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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#611

Post by Jevon23 »

OOPMan wrote: post #600
Jevon23 wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of HN makes a living from software that by nature can’t be pirated, so they have little sympathy for people who work on software that can be pirated.

Nonsense. Nintendo bring this in themselves with their own policies. There are so many hardware platforms I can support, and one that hardly ever does sales and refuses to bring their games to other platforms is not that appealing. I buy games on PC, I buy games on XB, I've even rebought some games between the platforms to play couch co-op with my kid. Steam and XB have enough sales to make this an option, Nintendo o…

>These days I don't have time for Nintendo's nonsense.

But you have time to play their games, apparently?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#612

Post by albrewer »

rbits wrote: post #568
trollied wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're crapping themselves because somebody has just released [1] a cartridge that lets you run "backups" stored on a SD card on an actual physical switch. Each cart has a unique key though, so I imagine Nintendo will go on a big banning spree. [1] https://migswitch.com/

Oh yeah, from what I've heard using that will get you banned instantly

They can only ban you if they find 2 copies of the same cart running at the same time. This hardware, for all intents and purposes, looks to the Switch like a physical cartridge.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#613

Post by monocasa »

withinboredom wrote: post #540
monocasa wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Effectively' has a different meaning than y'all are reading. It's not effectively as in 'an effective, well constructed lock', but instead as in 'for all intents and purposes'. The law doesn't say 'it's illegal to break a lock until it's been broken'.

A door without a lock or sign saying "keep out" is not "effective for all intents and purposes." Further, you can buy a switch and never agree to any EULA or other contracts.

> A door without a lock or sign saying "keep out" is not "effective for all intents and purposes."

But picking a crappy lock on a door you're not supposed to open is still a crime, regardless of how crappy the lock is.

> Further, you can buy a switch and never agree to any EULA or other contracts.

1201 doesn't require you to sign any conracts or agree to any EULAs. It's treated more like trespass.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#614

Post by monocasa »

withinboredom wrote: post #541
monocasa wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use AES, but a pretty custom key derivation scheme to get to the AES keys for a specific game given the game's metadata and pre shared root keys installed on the switch at manufacturing time. Yuzu implements that key derivation scheme so that you don't have to track down per game version keys. A browser does not have the code to decrypt a switch ROM.

It sounds like even then, you'd have to agree to (or read) an EULA to know that this is some magical thing. It is certainly possible to implement something without ever doing either.

1201 doesn't require signing a contract or agreeing to an EULA.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#615

Post by belthesar »

kmeisthax wrote: post #472
jrockway wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal system has sort of recognized this as a problem, which is why many states have anti-SLAPP lawsuits. Unfortunately, I don't think this strictly falls under the definition of "public participation", so there is no protection available. (And, big companies just try to sue you in federal court or states with no anti-SLAPP lawsuits. So anti-SLAPP is not the big victory it should have been.)

An anti-SLAPP law usually works by giving you a special motion that lets you say "hey, I think this is a SLAPP lawsuit", which basically gives you access to fee shifting (making the loser pay the winner's legal fees). Copyright already has this built in. Which is great news... for Nintendo . The problem that Nintendo is citing in their lawsuit is the fact that Yuzu ships Switch common keys. For the purpose of DMCA 12…

That's the thing though, Yuzu doesn't ship with the common keys. Yuzu's quick start guide provides clear instructions for how to root a physical switch and dump the keys from the device, but it doesn't ship with the keys itself. What Nintendo is alleging is that providing the instructions to dump the keys is equivalent to providing them itself.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#616

Post by ls612 »

kevincox wrote: post #557
hx8 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is likely. There is a convincible future where Nintendo publishes more and more games outside of their hardware platforms, so Valve needs to keep good business relations with Nintendo.

This future seems very unlikely. Nintendo has published like 1 phone game? They are very much a fan of their garden. It course I would love to see this. I think Nintendo makes some very good games but have no interest in having specific physical hardware do end up not playing them.

Bayonetta 1 is on Steam fwiw.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#617

Post by withinboredom »

monocasa wrote: post #614
withinboredom wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like even then, you'd have to agree to (or read) an EULA to know that this is some magical thing. It is certainly possible to implement something without ever doing either.

1201 doesn't require signing a contract or agreeing to an EULA.

Then how do you know there’s copyrighted content there and you aren’t just building something compatible?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#618

Post by archontes »

hn_acker wrote: post #533
inyorgroove wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my podcast law degree, in civil action like this yes. To get standing you must show you were harmed in some way and that the court can remedy that harm. That is just one of many parts of the standing test that a federal court will apply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_(law)

> To get standing you must show you were harmed in some way and that the court can remedy that harm. That is just one of many parts of the standing test that a federal court will apply. Not in copyright cases. You have to show harm for actual damages, but copyright has statutory damages: you only need to demonstrate a violation of the law (the copyright statutes) for damages [1]: > In all countries where the Berne Co…

Are you aware of any precedent that "enabling" copyright infringement is tantamount to copyright infringement?

Copyright obviously protects against the retransmittal of the copyrighted work. If Yuzu hasn't done that, it isn't guilty of copyright infringement. Instead, Nintendo is arguing that if Yuzu didn't exist, fewer people would have committed copyright infringement. That in itself is not a copyright claim.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#619

Post by wernercd »

causality0 wrote: post #436
wernercd wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say it doesn't make sense... but the emulator crashed and my game was unrecoverable. I don't have the PC anymore but I know what I had happen.

Your yuzu/ryujinx installation could've become messed up and stopped looking in the right folder but your save files were still there and recoverable, I promise.

I went through the old save files and it was dead. I know where they were located. I found the same manuals and the same walkthroughs.

My game files were trashed. Restoring the different saves did nothing.

I promise you, I know how to restore saved files and follow instructions on how to do as such.

The emulators we easy to use. beautiful. responsive. After TOTK, the energy behind them had them getting constantly updated and was a good experience.

Until it wasn't.

Restarted TOTK on my Switch. I had bought it because I support games that are worth it even if I emulate them. I've got a Powkiddy RGB10 where I also emulate games. I've got a plex server where I host my own library.

When I, a random person on the internet you can believe or not believe, say that my emulator died and I lost weeks of progress on my game? I lost weeks of progress on my game. I can't remember which I was using (I switched between them at one point because one was faster/better but I can't remember which one it was)

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#620

Post by a_vanderbilt »

gamepsys wrote: post #46

This is truly awful for the gaming community at large. If this case makes a ruling then it will most likely have an impact on all emulation projects. If Nintendo decides to sue your open source project, how do you mount a legal defense?

Adversarial interoperability is at risk should the circumvention argument be entertained by the court. Don't want a competitor making something compatible even though they are legally allowed? Just protect it with "effective" measures and they aren't allowed to even try to be compatible?

The Switches system1-6 crypto schemes weren't terribly good. system5 even weakend it drammatically and trapdoored them into being permenently weaker. Problem is what constitutes an "effective" anti-circumvention according to the DMCA is not defined.

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