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Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#901

Post by audunw »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

To be honest, I'm not sure what Apple could've brought to the table in regards to making an electric car. Apple's hardware design philosophies[1] don't really align with what consumers want in a car. Apple being less minimalistic than a Tesla — which is already at an extreme — is a hard sell. [1] Examples of what I mean: - Cars use faux materials all the time for cost and weight purposes, or even just looks (i.e. fak…

I’m not so sure the comfort criticism is fair with Vision Pro.

They seem to think the amount of computer power in this first product is a kind of MVP for their vision of VR/AR.

Given this amount of compute with today’s technology, using metal is a hard requirement for long term comfort.

Plastic doesn’t conduct heat well. Using metal lets you conduct some of the heat away from the face.

I haven’t used AVP myself, but I’ve seen others comment that they find Quest gets hotter, despite having less compute power.

Perhaps future iterations will use titanium and/or piezo fans to reduce weight while keeping thermals manageable. But I don’t expect them to move to plastics.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#902

Post by scrappyjoe »

steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

On the subject of electric cars, I would argue that the _components_ in an electric vehicle are far simpler than those in an internal combustion engine.

From the wheels, working inwards -

1. Brakes are used less because of regenerative braking, so less wear and tear.

2. Brake vacuum is provided by an electric pump, cheap part to replace. If you use an iBooster you eliminate master and slave cylinders - much less complex.

3. You don't need a gearbox of any kind because you don't have to keep the engine RPM in an optimal torque band - it's all constant torque.

4. Therefore no clutch required. Even if you want to keep a gearbox, you don't need one because an electric motor has so little rotating mass that you can clutches shift.

5. The motor is vastly simpler. No combustion, no timing issues, no fuel delivery issues, vastly less wear and tear, less fluids.

6. Vastly less heat generated means simple, easy to repair coolant system.

7. No gas tank, no fuel lines to block or corrode.

8. Battery is a single unit, if you've got a good BMS, cells are protected so you can replace bad cells.

9. Controlling all of these things need not use zillions of wires which are impossible to trace. Either these components work just fine in failover mode (i.e just give them power and they work) or are simple to control with CANBUS. Canbus is scary because it is unfamiliar. It's generally an eminently hackable system, and you just need to route 2 wires from the CANBUS spine to the component. It's actually waaaay simpler than, say, Ethernet.

All in all, I would argue that an electric motor is a vastly better technology to base a _simple, repairable personal transport solution_ on top of. It's just that no EV producer has identified 'repairability' as a market need.

[Edit]: formatting

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#903

Post by commandersaki »

steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

These devices all sound nice, but always fall short of something. The big something for me is accessibility.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#904

Post by int_19h »

kls0e wrote: post #796
captn3m0 wrote: post #787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For iPhones, I’ve been meaning to try out Assistive Access as a “minimalist mode”. It gives you a big icon launcher becomes a dumb phone, more or less. https://support.apple.com/en-in/guide/assistive-access-iphon...

just tried it! excellent tip. thanks!

Unfortunately it's much more limited than an actual "dumb phone" because of some weird choices Apple made. In particular:

1. You can only receive messages from numbers that are in your contact list.

2. You can only send messages and make phone calls to select numbers that are in your contact list, and which have been additionally whitelisted under Assistive Access.

3. The Settings app (which lets you configure the whitelist) is not available.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#906

Post by int_19h »

pasabagi wrote: post #879
glitchinc wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not agree with you more. All electronics fail, and all systems reliant on electronics fail. Not all worm gears fail. As someone who has worked in tech my whole life, and who currently runs a technology-centric company, I generally detest the state of technology these days. I have reached a point in my life where I consciously limit my use of technology, and make it a point to steer clear of purchasing and mak…

> All electronics fail, and all systems reliant on electronics fail. Not all worm gears fail. This is kind of a weird take: I was reading about the Therac 25 (radiation therapy machine that killed a few people because of software bugs), and one of the reasons why they were so confident it was going to work is that software isn't vulnerable to two classes of 'bugs' that analog devices suffer from: wear, and manufactur…

Worm screws have a known and simple failure mode, however, which people understand. It can also take a very long time to fail depending on the design - longer than the useful life of the product in many cases.

Software fails suddenly and unexpectedly, and when it does, it's rarely clear how to mitigate it. Witness all the "turn it off and on again" jokes...

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#907

Post by int_19h »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #441
lotsofpulp wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much for pedestrians and bicyclists, or people using other forms of travel that don’t involve being inside a tank-like vehicle.

That's not the point I was making. I was only stating that the Cyber Truck's design isn't boring, and that today's Apple seems incapable of designing something exciting.

It is unusual, but in a remarkably boring way.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#908

Post by Barrin92 »

masfoobar wrote: post #882
steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

Thank you for your comment. I enjoyed reading it. For me -- I like simplicity. A simple computer. A simple phone. A simple car. etc. I am not against technology "that just works" and you dont need to do much... but it comes at a cost, being your freedom (lack of configurations) I am not here to point fingers and anyone. I just like to have control over my technology, or it is relatively easy to repair (or pretty chea…

>For me -- I like simplicity.

Pretty much for that reason the only piece of tech in the last 15 years that I've genuinely liked is the Kindle (or comparable ereaders).

Literally just displays books in a format that feels pretty natural and does almost nothing else.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#909

Post by whackx »

steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

What you describe are simple systems. Most people confuse simplicity and intuitiveness. The Apple Car or the iPhone are intuitive to use but far from simple, because of the abstraction level. I like simple systems, which are maintainable, because they lack high abstractions.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#910

Post by yreg »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #168

To be honest, I'm not sure what Apple could've brought to the table in regards to making an electric car. Apple's hardware design philosophies[1] don't really align with what consumers want in a car. Apple being less minimalistic than a Tesla — which is already at an extreme — is a hard sell. [1] Examples of what I mean: - Cars use faux materials all the time for cost and weight purposes, or even just looks (i.e. fak…

The execution perhaps falls short, but Tesla aims to build exactly the same car that Apple would aim to make.

Elon wanted to sell to Apple in the Model 3 early days. Who knows what would have happened if Apple were interested.

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