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Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

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Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#881
All the latest AI products, as great as they are (and I love them), make me overall less optimistic over the "older" AI products which we were promised one day, because now I see how fickle and very wrong they can be.

Today I am the least confident that I will ever sit in a self driving car with my family. So this news doesn't come as a big surprise to me.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#882

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

Thank you for your comment. I enjoyed reading it.

For me -- I like simplicity.

A simple computer. A simple phone. A simple car.

etc.

I am not against technology "that just works" and you dont need to do much... but it comes at a cost, being your freedom (lack of configurations)

I am not here to point fingers and anyone. I just like to have control over my technology, or it is relatively easy to repair (or pretty cheap if I pay someone else with more experience to do it)

For laptops and desktops, I do not have much negatives about using GNU/Linux. Some people mentions the bad experiences they have but that is not the case for me. I say this for many years, now.

For phone... yes, I have an Android. Before that, I had a Firefox phone for 5 years... and I honestly enjoyed it. A bit clunky at times but worked really well. I do keep an eye of OpenSource-esque phones from time to time. I remember the openmoko phone which must have been 10 years ago, now. Today I know about Librem or Pinephones. I would like to move over to one of these babies... but maybe leave it another 5 years.

As for my Car, I like Polo, Corsa, Fiesta type Cars. I will leave it there.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#883
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all Apple's flaws, I trust that they could disrupt the AI industry once they enter it. Their decisions are all highly calculated, and they employee vast swaths of researchers. I would not be surprised if they entered the market with a well functioning local LLM

Have you actually used Siri? They are absolutely garbage at anything even remotely resembling the basics of AI/LLM related after spending a decade on it.

It's pretty clear they made a conscious choice to keep Siri simple (as frustrating as that is). But this does not reveal anything about their capabilities with LLM based systems.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#884

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

[dead]

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not agree with you more. All electronics fail, and all systems reliant on electronics fail. Not all worm gears fail. As someone who has worked in tech my whole life, and who currently runs a technology-centric company, I generally detest the state of technology these days. I have reached a point in my life where I consciously limit my use of technology, and make it a point to steer clear of purchasing and mak…

> All electronics fail, and all systems reliant on electronics fail. Not all worm gears fail. This is kind of a weird take: I was reading about the Therac 25 (radiation therapy machine that killed a few people because of software bugs), and one of the reasons why they were so confident it was going to work is that software isn't vulnerable to two classes of 'bugs' that analog devices suffer from: wear, and manufactur…

> physical devices are subject to entire categories of bugs that software can be reliably proofed against.

electronics != software

> All worm screws will ultimately fail, while software can (if done correctly) run forever.

You also need a machine to run that software forever.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t hate the Apple Watch, but I was pretty seriously disappointed at how it looked when it came out. Great! They made a watch look like my phone, cool

It's funny that of all things Apple's watches are square and Android watches are round. It feels like it should be the other way around.

Not really - watches are historically round because of roundrel clock faces. A square is a better form factor for literally everything else that an Apple Watch does. So it is the Apple move to shape the watch to perform best at 95% of its tasks, and a Google move to shape the watch to perform best with a subset of available watch faces.

This isn't even new. Casio etc have designed digital square watches for decades because they don't need to be round without clock arms.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's kind of what we're getting soon: https://www.vw.com/en/models/id-buzz.html it's no longer concept.

Soon? I thought it was for sale. I'm pretty sure I saw a model _with_ price in Dubai show room.

There are many on the roads in Norway. They've sold 5k of the cargo version so far here.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#888
post #810
post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s because they don’t want to carry that constant burden of thought with them With me it's the thought of how it's going to prevent me from doing what I want because "it's not the Apple way" (but that applies to more than just apple). It's the main reason not to use those.

And that’s fair, and it’s important to always underscore that people have subjective preferences. But the two people I responded to prior seemed to find it odd that others have a different set of goals.

With the need to curb CO2 emissions, I sincerely hope that "subjective preferences" will leave some space to "reasonable preferences".

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#889
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could easily buy Volkswagen sized company from the reserve cash they have and still have quite a good amount of reserve left. I don't think car experience is something that is the limiting factor.

Yes, let's take a very high margin business to buy a very low margin business. Our shareholders will surely appreciate that.

Or let's bet 2% of valuation to create another high margin business in one of the only sector that could give us trillion dollar more. I am just saying that few 10s of billions are enough to get all the tradition car makers talent, so if they are serious about car this is not the blocker.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#890
post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what I meant. "People want an experience that works out of the box." That experience of a car just working out of the box, doing what it is supposed to do, and never having any issues whatsoever, is more typical of Toyota/Honda than it is of any of the EV makers. Even though electric vehicles as a category should be better in principle (fewer moving parts).

There’s no single axis to people’s decisions though. The Japanese brands have stagnated in terms of style, features and BEV availability. Especially in the case of Honda, they’ve also lost that impression of reliability. Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are eating their market for what people’s wants have changed to: cars as an extension of the rest of their lives, not just a utility. ease of use has to be viewed in that contex…

> cars as an extension of the rest of their lives, not just a utility

I don't even understand what that means. That could be a marketing slogan.

Cars have been at the center of our lives for decades in most developed countries, we don't even notice it anymore. Unless you live in the Netherlands, Japan or a big European metropolis, everything has been designed for them.

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