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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#501

Post by hellotomyrars »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #440
Panzer04 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between being a publisher/game developer and a hardware company. Hardware companies see games as a means to sell consoles. Game developers see platforms as a means to sell games. If you're coming at things from the perspective of a hardware maker it makes sense to be as restrictive as possible, since that provides the differentiation that sells your (overpriced) hardware. In addition, if your hard…

Is Nintendo even making money on the Switches themselves ?

Nintendo is famous for not selling their hardware at a loss unlike other console manufacturers. The only systems known to be sold at a loss were the 3DS (after price cuts) and the Wii U. This is part of why the hardware is underpowered compared to contemporaries.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#502

Post by KingOfCoders »

3abiton wrote: post #399
WithinReason wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you want to do it legally.

Nintendo made it clear that this is also "illegal". You have to opt for the worse experience (using the switch) otherwise you're the bad guy ...

Luckily Nintendo (Shadowrun is still some years away, when Ninsonmicro determines what is legal and what isn't) is not the authority to determine if something is illegal or not. But of course they are entitled to their own opinion.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#503

Post by slily »

robbiet480 wrote: post #3

I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim a lot easier. Somewhat surprised they haven't yet sued Ryujinx (the other Switch emulator project) for also having a Patreon.

I'm actually surprised it took so long considering they were seeking crowdfunding while openly advertising the piracy use case and raking in thousands of dollars a month (now $30,000 - wow). Patreon rewards can be construed as profit-seeking; Patreon even charges sales tax if you donate under a reward tier (they don't if you go through the no-reward custom donation flow). It's cool to hate on Nintendo for being overly litigious these days, and they deserve that reputation, but with projects where piracy is clearly the main goal, and a significant amount of money is involved, I find it hard to sympathize. Even if it's technically legal, it strikes me as parasitic behavior.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#504

Post by hellotomyrars »

bitwize wrote: post #136
realusername wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually multiple arguments with zero proof there. - they didn't prove that Yuzu contributed to piracy (and since the amount of piracy tools on the Switch itself that's far from obvious that Yuzu is a first choice) - they didn't prove that the leak itself lead to a loss of revenue. And that's also very hard of an argument to make considering that this game was a huge commercial success.

If a device's only use involves copyright infringement, it's illegal to sell or distribute in the USA. That's how they went after cable descramblers and, less successfully, VCRs in the 80s. Since getting actual Switch game data necessarily involves violating the DMCA, Nintendo's lawyers will have an easy time showing that the only way yuzu can be useful is if the user violates copyright law, thus making the emulator…

The DMCA specifically has language about being entitled to circumvent a technological measure" for "the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program". This language has never been tested in court but there is a compelling argument to be made.

The Copyright Office has become increasingly friendly to these types of arguments as well, though they have imposed some limitations on games hardware. The next set of rules/guidance they put out won't be until october (They do it every 3 years).

Yuzu isn't sold* as a product and unless Nintendo can convince the court that the mere act of emulation (or obtaining the console keys required to make Yuzu function in the first place) violate their copyright, then I don't see it personally. You can run code that isn't owned by Nintendo on a Switch. Maybe there is a reasonableness argument that people aren't using Yuzu to play Switch homebrew, but there is a homebrew scene around the Switch.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#505

Post by aurareturn »

_imnothere wrote: post #495

Things like this and companies like Nintendo must be stopped, it's both morally and legally correct to emulate when people actually owns the machine and cartridges.

Disagreed. I'm guessing that 99.99% of Switch emulator users do not own the cartridges. They're stealing, which is not only morally wrong, but legally wrong.

Nintendo has the right to protect their IP and they have the right to make money.

Furthermore, I disagree in general that it's morally and legally correct to emulate something you purchased.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#506

Post by aurareturn »

jzebedee wrote: post #447
crtasm wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon about page begins: >yuzu is a Nintendo Switch emulator capable of running many games! With yuzu, you can play such games as Pokémon Sword & Shield, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Super Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Pokémon Legends: Arceus, Fire Emblem:Three Houses, and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate — on your PC. Regardless of the legal status of an emulator, I wouldn't list game titles if I were writing that copy…

It's not illegal to play games that you already purchased and own. Piracy is just a convenient scapegoat to hobble emulation.

I'd argue that you should reverse your stance.

It's illegal to pirate games. Being able to emulate things you purchased is a convenient scapegoat for people to pirate games.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#507

Post by huggingmouth »

jamesear wrote: post #393
zucker42 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hammers are used for theft, as well. Even if Nintendo's business would benefit from emulators not existing[1], it doesn't mean we should ban emulators (or create laws which allow multinationals to sue open source emulator projects out of existence). [1] which is not necessarily true

I understand your argument, and perhaps a similar one will be made to the courts. For some people, if a tool has a single legitimate user, and otherwise haa illegitimate users, then the tool should be allowed. For others, if the tool is mostly used for illegitimate means, then the tool should be banned. Where the law lands in this case will be partly based on these values, and the benefits/harms to all parties. I don…

Lock picking tools are legal and they're primarily used for illegal activities.

The same can be said for gun use (not ownership).

How much something is used for illegal activities should have no baring on whether it is allowed in a free country.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#508

Post by wiz21c »

aurareturn wrote: post #505
_imnothere wrote: post #495

Things like this and companies like Nintendo must be stopped, it's both morally and legally correct to emulate when people actually owns the machine and cartridges.

Disagreed. I'm guessing that 99.99% of Switch emulator users do not own the cartridges. They're stealing, which is not only morally wrong, but legally wrong. Nintendo has the right to protect their IP and they have the right to make money. Furthermore, I disagree in general that it's morally and legally correct to emulate something you purchased.

That is, Yuzu in itself doesn't do anything. You need Nintendo's IP to run Yuzu, so Nintendo should blame those who steal their IP.

Now, the real question is: did Yuzu's creator have illegal access to Nintendo's IP to write Yuzu ?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#510

Post by Medox »

slily wrote: post #503
robbiet480 wrote: post #3

I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim a lot easier. Somewhat surprised they haven't yet sued Ryujinx (the other Switch emulator project) for also having a Patreon.

I'm actually surprised it took so long considering they were seeking crowdfunding while openly advertising the piracy use case and raking in thousands of dollars a month (now $30,000 - wow). Patreon rewards can be construed as profit-seeking; Patreon even charges sales tax if you donate under a reward tier (they don't if you go through the no-reward custom donation flow). It's cool to hate on Nintendo for being overl…

hopefully a lot of that money was already put aside for upcoming lawsuits
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