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Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

detroitnews.com

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Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#51
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

> I always saw unions as That's possibly a function of the unions you've directly encountered, or some personal bias of your own. > I also don't think that people should all get the same pay See, you already have something in common with all the unions I've ever encountered. If somebody brings something tangibly extra to a job then they deserve a better job title and pay bracket. Unions support this- higher pay for l…

>or some personal bias of your own.

class bias most likely

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#52
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No problem, the manufacturing will move to Mexico.

Exactly. It’s a medium timeline win. They won’t move prod there overnight, but eventually they will shift prod there and then it will become another brownfield company town like they have in the rust belt.

Then the workers should enjoy the medium timeline win.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#53

It seems like the bulk of the comments here are in response to a dead comment. @dang: Can we either revive the dead comment or suppress the entire story?

Click on the time next to a post's name. Opens up their comment in a new page, with a 'vouch' button. That can un-dead.

I just did that, not because I agree, but because a lot of people in IT have the similar view. Discussing and refuting that view is essential.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

You pay to be a part of a union so it must have some kind of value to the customers (the workers) otherwise no one would pay and there wouldn't be high union membership. If workers felt that a good attitude and honing their skills would get them paid more than being a part of a union they wouldn't join.

> there wouldn't be high union membership.

Union membership is 10% in the United States.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#55
post #7

Good for them. Got to keep unions alive for that collective bargaining. Given the recent state court rulings in AL, I am honestly surprised Mercedes is even keeping the plant open.

I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

> I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing.

You're thinking of management.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#56
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily a whim, and maybe is a sunk costs fallacy. The 600M wouldn't mark down to zero if they decided to shut it down.

Future switching costs to a new plant are non trivial as well

If the plant is producing at expected amounts, the cost of paying a human and union acceptable wage won't be that much. A union contract means you won't have labor strife later, just negotiate a contact. Without a union you have endless turmoil and mad workers who are thinking about having a union.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#57
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

> I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. Their contribution is bargaining. Actors in Hollywood have agents for that, but if you're a worker earning an average salary, you can't afford that. So you pool your resources together for that. > I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people wor…

Actors in Hollywood have agents for that

And, famously, a union. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_SAG-AFTRA_strike

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#58
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a trap? Seems pretty obvious for a worker to why this makes sense.

It’s good in the medium term, but in the longer term production will be moved to Mexico. No reason not to and a union of a reason to move.

That’s why economic theories around unions underscore the importance of global solidarity. We can use our political power not only to empower local workers, but to refuse to work with global workers that aren’t themselves empowered.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#59
post #19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s good in the medium term, but in the longer term production will be moved to Mexico. No reason not to and a union of a reason to move.

Hopefully politicians can punish the move to mexico. Voters should support that.

USMCA (the NAFTA replacement; a free trade agreement between the US, Canada, and Mexico) does have some restrictions on the automotive industry in Canada and Mexico, but Mexico has been an automotive powerhouse for years now.

Mexico is already the 6th largest auto producing nation - basically the same size as Germany and South Korea. Mercedes already produces vehicles in Mexico (as does Audi, Baic Group, BMW, Stellantis, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagen). About 70% of Mexico's vehicle production heads for the US and employs over 1M people. Mexico accounts for 23% of North American auto assembly. Mexico also imports about 50% of its auto parts from the US.

Before NAFTA, Mexico had restrictions requiring vehicles to be made domestically from domestic parts. NAFTA opened Mexico to US vehicles. Over time, Mexico's automotive industry took off assembling many US and foreign vehicles and creating lots of parts.

As of 2021, US/Canadian auto workers earned an average of around $20-21/hour. USMCA requires that 40-45% of auto workers earn a minimum of $16/hour, including all the parts manufacturing, etc. (NAFTA didn't have this wage requirement)

When you create free trade agreements, it can cut both ways. It opens Mexico to lots of US goods and services and it also means that Mexico can export to the US. At the same time, we've only seen moderate movement toward Mexican manufacturing with US/Canadian manufacturing accounting for 77% of North American manufacturing. Companies haven't just up and moved their American manufacturing to Mexico. Companies are still opening new US plants. Rivian is opening a $5B plant in Georgia (and before you say "because of the tax credits if you make EVs in the US" those also apply to countries we have a free trade agreement with like Mexico). Hyundai/Kia is opening a new plant in Georgia. Ford broke ground on a new plant in Tennessee in 2022, one of 4 new US factories. VinFast (a Vietnamese auto company) is opening a $4B plant in North Carolina. GM is spending billions on new US facilities.

So when someone says that automotive production will all be moving to Mexico because of this, it seems unlikely. Yes, Mexico will become an increasingly important part of the North American automotive industry, but we're seeing companies continue to invest in US factories - including unionized US factories. That's not to say that unions have zero impact on the planning decisions of automotive companies, but the view of the comment that you're responding to (that automotive production will simply be moved to Mexico) probably isn't going to come to pass in a clear-cut way. The US and Mexico have had a free trade agreement for 30 years now and we simply haven't seen companies run away from unions to Mexico. That's not to say that companies haven't used Mexican plants. They have. But we haven't even seen this type of thing come up in union negotiations. Mexico is producing around 30% more vehicles today than when free trade started. US production is flat, German production is down 20%, Canadian production is down 50%, Japanese production is down 25%, French down 60%, British down 40%. The US automotive industry isn't without issues, but it's doing pretty well compared to a lot of peer nations - even while Mexican imports are there.

Again, I'm not saying that it has no impact, but there's no evidence that the sky is falling. It's a political boogeyman more than a reality. It's also important to note that US vehicle production basically hasn't moved much since 1950. In fact, from 1950-1980, US production was around 8M vehicles per year. US automotive manufacturing is higher now than it was when we had more protections against cheap Mexican cars - while other high-income countries have seen declines and despite the fact that US automotive manufacturing saw no growth for 30 years when there were plenty of protections. It's not like US cars were a growth industry and then that stopped when Mexican imports happened. US auto manufacturing was a stagnating industry for decades then free trade with Mexico happened and US auto manufacturing has done better. The sky isn't falling, companies are still investing tens of billions (probably hundreds of billions combined) in new US auto manufacturing, and I don't think this vote is going to make much of a difference.

Re: Majority of workers at Mercedes plant in Alabama sign UAW authorization cards

#60
post #7

Good for them. Got to keep unions alive for that collective bargaining. Given the recent state court rulings in AL, I am honestly surprised Mercedes is even keeping the plant open.

I always saw unions as a bureaucratic/political layer that sits on top of workers, collecting money without contributing. I also don't think that people should all get the same pay or collectively bargain. Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

>Some people work harder, invest more in their skills, bring a better attitude, etc. They should get paid more.

And how often in the past 20 years have you seen that backfire and end up with the best employees

1. being stalled for a promotion because they are "too important to promote". Or worse, promoted for no extra pay but extra responsibilities

2. fail to negotiate a small raise and then move to a new company for a big raise... only for the company to hire someone for more than that employee asked for.

3. get kicked out anyway because they were "overpaid", only to have the company fold without their knowledge that kept a million dollar service afloat

4. get passed up for another employee due to nepotism, office poliics, or a variety of other scandals waiting to happen

5. stand up for themselves and their team against legally dubious plans, only to get kicked out and then the company gets sued later.

Companies consistently show they don't care about talent, nor do they encourage retention. If they want to stay a revolving door, why hope that working harder will get you noticed?

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