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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be a miscommunication. The litigants and defendants would not be compelled to contribute equal amounts. Just the disbursement would be equal.

Then why would the litigants contribute in the first place? If nothing compels them to, they won't, so effectively the status quo.

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the case. The games are copyrighted. The keys only need to constitute an effective anti-circumvention scheme (any technological measure that “effectively controls access” to a work) to be illegal to code for.

If the keys are that readily available ... I don't think it is "effective" by any definition of the word.

'Effectively' has a different meaning than y'all are reading. It's not effectively as in 'an effective, well constructed lock', but instead as in 'for all intents and purposes'.

The law doesn't say 'it's illegal to break a lock until it's been broken'.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#173
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't matter. The goal will be to run them out of money. It's an open source project and they most likely don't have the capital to fund any sort of lengthy lawsuit.

I really wish our system had some kind of financial handicap when it came to access to the legal system. Weaponizing the legal system to bankrupt people that would be found Not Guilty shouldn't be possible.

The legal system has sort of recognized this as a problem, which is why many states have anti-SLAPP lawsuits. Unfortunately, I don't think this strictly falls under the definition of "public participation", so there is no protection available. (And, big companies just try to sue you in federal court or states with no anti-SLAPP lawsuits. So anti-SLAPP is not the big victory it should have been.)

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot to mention whether you pirated the game or were playing it legally

My guess is that the number of people using Yuzu to play switch games they own is approximately 0

You don't sound very knowledgeable about the space.

The Switch has a vibrant modding and homebrew scene. People also like modding their consoles to dump their games.

Lots of power users want to dump their games to play the top games on their PC. Tears of the Kingdom runs in 8k, at 60fps, with lots of QOL improvements on PC.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#175

I would love to see OSS communities like Internet Archive or founders who are pro open source support them. Emulators are legal. Defending your hobby project in court is infeasible without patrons. Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. As for the emulator itself, I don't see any argument that the Yuzu team used "illegal means" (internal SDKs, whatever their equiv…

> Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. IANAL, but my understanding is that while emulation is unambiguously legal in the US after Bleem vs. Sony, an emulator which decrypts games is maybe not legal under the DMCA circumvention rules, and those have never really been tested in the context of an emulator. The Bleem case happened shortly after the DMCA was enacted,…

Nah, there's no circumvention here, on Yuzu's part. There may be parties involved in circumvention, but the emulator neither aids nor publishes any aid for that. The emulator REQUIRES a user to first have a legitimate copy. If the user illegally obtained that copy, they didn't obtain it via Yuzu, and they didn't use Yuzu to get around the encryption that is in the file. The emulator is just using the key on the file, the same way any application - including the Switch OS - has to. That's not "circumvention", that's "usage". If the key should not be able to be collected, for use on the file, then it's not the Yuzu emulator that collects the key. It's whatever ROM dumping/packaging solution a bad actor is using.

If it ever made it in front a jury, it can be summarized as a big company trying to sue a little company out of existence because the big company doesn't like that the little company is executing the big company's code. But, unfortunately for the big company, executing someone else's code - even without their permission - is not illegal. Nintendo has the resources to sue torrent hosts and take on individuals involved in sharing networks. They have the resources to find the problem and fix it. But they're not using those resources to solve the problem; they're using those resources to scare lawful citizens into inaction because that's a cheaper target. There should never be a legal reward for that kind of scheme.

But, honestly, this should never make it to trial. There are zero merits for argument, here.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#176

This is a pretty big case to watch. Are there any cases of emulators being sued successfully? A user being able to provide keys and a rom from which they could own or be homebrew doesn't seem to violate copyright to me. edit: seems the consensus is once via legal fund attrition, but the case went to the emulator authors in the end.

This won't matter. The goal will be to run them out of money. It's an open source project and they most likely don't have the capital to fund any sort of lengthy lawsuit.

Unless the EFF or a similar org supports them.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#177

If anything this lawsuit makes it difficult to morally justify purchasing Nintendo hardware and supporting them. Having really enjoyed the first Zelda game on an emulator I would otherwise have really considered it.

So you played their game on an emulator, and you "would otherwise have really considered" paying for their products (but you didn't). How are they losing out by alienating you?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#178
post #147

I would love to see OSS communities like Internet Archive or founders who are pro open source support them. Emulators are legal. Defending your hobby project in court is infeasible without patrons. Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. As for the emulator itself, I don't see any argument that the Yuzu team used "illegal means" (internal SDKs, whatever their equiv…

>precedent waiting to happen no need, Sony already got us one. Bleem and VGS were a big business, Steve Jobs himself advertised VGS during Macworld 1999 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUfu-xOGr1U&t=9m0s Sony sued Bleem and lost in court Sony Computer Entertainment America v. Bleem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit Sadly court case legal fees bankrupted Bleem, Sony later bought VGS from Connectix, and…

I am familiar with both. I think the fact that Nintendo still went ahead and this will likely have repercussions means that the precedent isn't enough of a deterrent.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#179
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not part of that scene, but I am sympathetic to emulation. Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? I wonder if there are other reasons than Patreon ( money changing hands ) or there were other considerations?

Yuzu has amazing compatibility. I'm guessing it's getting too good for Nintendo. Their concerns with TotK are not without merit. I played it on Yuzu (on PC) because it was a much better experience than on the switch. Within a few days of the game being out, there were resolution and fps patches which made the game run much better. That said, I'm not sure how Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy. Guessing Nintendo is th…

I’ve seen this sentiment echoed by many.

Seems like it’d be more productive to reduce attrition of this sort by releasing a Switch with less-anemic hardware. There’s clearly a market for a “Switch Pro” or similar that can run TotK, etc at 60FPS without frame drops.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#180
It's unbelievable how much I loath Nintendo these days. Hard to believe I use to love them growing up.

I got a Nintendo switch last year from Walmart. The f*ing came used (apparently someone in the store played some Zelda in it, put it back in the box and sold to me as new). Walmart said they couldn't do anything when I emailed them about the issue. Anyways, the switch came with no games. Nothing. Zero. So, naively I subscribed to the Nintendo online service, which I believed would be like Xbox game pass. Not at all. The service only let you play online. The only thing i got out of it was some SNES emulation.

Moves like that and the ones this news cover pushes fans away.

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