Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 992 posts

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#211

Post by MBCook »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #169
eli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

Not really the point. Apple succeeded because they applied their strengths, product and user interface design, to what is essentially a small computer. Apple have always developed core products that are essentially a computer. Even though cars increasingly look like laptops on wheels, the actual computer bit is relatively minor and the user interface is mostly the wheel and pedals, not so much the screen.

I think that’s why they were a bit more interested when the original idea was to skip all that and do all automatic driving.

But as soon as it became clear that wasn’t going to be an option I don’t understand why they didn’t just give up and instead seemed to try to shift towards a more normal car.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#212

Post by chx »

paxys wrote: post #111
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple seems so far behind in generative AI Apple is a best-in-class second mover. With the clusterfuck that has been generative AI (from OpenAI’s corporate drama to Google renaming and reörganizing their products every fifteen minutes) this seems prescient, with the only savvy player so far being Microsoft.

> Apple is a best-in-class second mover. Apple's biggest successes have come from being the first mover in a brand new space. Apple II, Macintosh, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Airpods, Watch were all category defining rather than "me too" products. In fact Apple is terrible at throwing its hat into an already crowded space, and doubly so when it comes to software.

Really? really?

you think when the iPhone came out the space was not crowded? You think they defined the category? Jobs himself have put up a number of smartphones in his 2007 presentation. Yes, the iPhone was far, very far better but it was definitely not a first.

Same thing with the iPod vs Diamond Rio MP3 layers.

As for the Watch, gosh, I do not even know where to start. Pebble Kickstarter two years before that? Two generations of the Samsung Galaxy Gear came out well before the Apple Watch.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#214

Post by scarface_74 »

eli wrote: post #29
MBCook wrote: post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

Rumors of Apple making an “iPhone” were rampant and always seen as the next step from making the iPod.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#215

Post by croes »

gnicholas wrote: post #13

I really hope Apple continues its privacy-first ethos and offers an on-device LLM. It would also be great if they could use Handoff-like technology to let my (almost always nearby, almost always plugged-in) laptop do the thinking, instead of depleting the battery of my phone. I'd surely buy a bunch of HomePod minis if I could tie them into a local LLM.

>privacy-first ethos

Apple doesn't have a privacy first ethos, it's more of an All your-data-are-belong-to-us.

They just don't like to share the asset of their users data, that's not privacy.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#216

Post by MBCook »

jcfrei wrote: post #157
MBCook wrote: post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

Don't have a source ready but if I remember correctly they never planned to build the car themselves. There are plenty of contract manufacturers out there that build for a variety of brands (Magna Steyr in Austria is a typical example). Then Apple adds it's custom electronics and AI driving assistants and voila you got an iCar.

I believe you’re right, but I thought the plan was to design it all themselves as opposed to buying/licensing an existing platform as skinning it + their electronics.

But then again they’ve changed things so many times according to the rumors maybe both were true at various times.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#217

Post by rescbr »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #166
jakeinspace wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing that most of Ferrari’s market value comes from the brand compared to future revenue or IP. Apple is just not that elite of a brand, I don’t see how selling million-dollar vehicles would significantly change their brand (assuming an Apple logo hood ornament).

Aren't they? Their entire business is pretty much based on brand. Apple products aren't actually better than the competition (often they are worse, like the iPhone not letting you install apps outside the app store). But it doesn't matter because people think Apple is cool. I don't see why that wouldn't translate to cars.

61% marketshare for phones in the US doesn't sound like a luxury brand to me.

They might position themselves as an aspirational brand outside the US, and by keeping retail prices close to the same as in the US, no matter the local purchasing power, I can see how they can be perceived as an upscale brand in some markets.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#218

Post by mfashby »

klik99 wrote: post #165
zer00eyz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Good. This was an idea that never made any sense to me. It’s high overhead/low-margin and requires infrastructure, sales and after-sales support that just aren’t aligned with how Apple does business. Apple, in a twist of fate, is in the same position that AT&T was when it started Bell Labs, and in the same place as Xerox was when it started Parc. The history of Parc and Apple is well known, the early history of u…

Yeah, I absolutely believe that Apple can bring something to car industry - I remember Elon once said that Teslas hidden strength that no other car manufacturer caught on to was treating the car as technology akin to an iPhone with incremental updates and improvements pushed over the air. I've owned a Model X for a few years and I see that approach but don't think Tesla has perfected it. Apple has the potential to in…

> there isn't and hasn't been for a long time a direct connection to the physical brakes.

I don't think this is true for most vehicles. Skoda Octavia 2020 for example still has hydraulic brakes. I was going to suggest that no mass-production vehicles use a brake-by-wire system but I would have been wrong, according to wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-by-wire

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#220

Post by Philpax »

h2odragon wrote: post #98

"shifts team" ... 'cuz the skillset overlap is so high, seems natural. Cars, AI; as far as Apple is concerned, is all marketing bullshit . A "direction shift" like this is turning the spout this way or that.

The car was partially autonomous. The people who were working on making it autonomous will be moved over to the full-time AI team.
Post reply on HN