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US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

theguardian.com

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Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#51

Post by polski-g »

gwbas1c wrote: post #11
anoncow wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Because that's the point of government: To govern. Edit: We don't always let people pay "market price" for whatever they want. There's plenty of precedent for rationing: IE, In CA, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you can't water your lawn in a drought. During the 1970s oil embargo, it didn't matter how rich you were, you still had to ration gasoline. In this case, cryptocurrency is both increasing the cost of ele…

> In CA, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you can't water your lawn in a drought

Yes, this policy is stupid. If the cost of water rose in response to scarcity, then it would incentivize institutions to build things to alleviate said scarcity and consumers would shift usage habits. Some people would move, some people would build desalination plants. Price fixes are the worst possible choice to a resource scarcity.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#52

Post by UncleEntity »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #18
justrealist wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Filling out any form for the federal government is actually a big deal, because you incur huge legal liability by being wrong (criminal, if they decide you were lying). Submitting regulatory documents goes through a lot of legal review for a reason, you can't just "spitball" the numbers.

Baloney. Any government form I've filled out gives that vibe, sure. And then when you're wrong, you don't get a fucking prison sentence, you get a phone call where someone explains why they think you're wrong and asks you to take a stab at it. Also, every form from the Government I've ever filled out that is binding in terms of accuracy goes out of it's way, where you sign (which this one, to my looking, I don't even…

The IRS used to be absolutely brutal in their enforcement efforts. Umm, full stop.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#53

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #45
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I, personally, as a citizen of both the United States and the larger world would very much like to know how much energy is being pissed away on crypto nonsense. I would like to know that too, but I also want my government to adhere to the laws which govern how it can generate paperwork and force me to incur compliance costs. So let's have both, huh?

The "compliance cost" here being a 2 page form that takes a half an hour? Where do you want the check sent?

I want the rule of law, not a check - what exactly are you looking for?

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#54

Post by birdofhermes »

sackfield wrote: post #44
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to begin considering. It's clear that the markets by themselves are not capable of addressing various concerns about our planet's limited resources. If we want our society to remain viable long term, we need to start being smart with how much of any given commodity is committed to how much of any given effort. A new one, to be sure, and worth scrutinizing as we begin. But the…

I think the market has shown that growth is the solution rather than rationing. Lots of the humanitarian improvements of the 20th century (such as number of people starving) are improved due to market forces innovating on doing more with less. The same will no doubt happen to energy. Consumption is the catalyst.

Market forces? It was the Haber process and subsequent innovations around nitrogen-fixing. It was scientific progress that saved us from Malthusian collapse.

On the other hand, market forces do explain why 40% of the American food supply is wasted [0] while 12% of American households suffer food insecurity [1].

[0] https://www.rts.com/resources/guides/food-waste-america/

[1] https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo...

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#55

Post by TeMPOraL »

sackfield wrote: post #28

It's weird that people are acting like commodities are under some sort of license when they are purchased. As far as I know they aren't. A world that tries to regulate this scares me more than one where people participate in futile hashing.

It's more about observing that perfect commodities don't exist - real life only matches the model under some conditions. What is typically considered a commodity stops behaving as one when demand outraces supply.

It's like Newton's laws of motion - they work for most of things we encounter day-to-day, but break down when bodies are heavy enough, small enough, and/or fast enough.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#56

Post by ajkjk »

office_drone wrote: post #31
gwbas1c wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's the point of government: To govern. Edit: We don't always let people pay "market price" for whatever they want. There's plenty of precedent for rationing: IE, In CA, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you can't water your lawn in a drought. During the 1970s oil embargo, it didn't matter how rich you were, you still had to ration gasoline. In this case, cryptocurrency is both increasing the cost of ele…

Good governance doesn't always mean doing something instead of nothing.

Well yes but it is still the answer to the question "Why is the government involved?" which sounded incredulous that it was even an option.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#57

Post by kube-system »

mistrial9 wrote: post #43
kube-system wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electricity is a utility, and utilities are a common good with regulated monopolies and oligopolies. Collecting data about utilities is necessary to manage this effectively.

excellent in theory - yet California PG&E repeatedly and over decades refused to release documentation that was required by law, and also other documentation that was not required by law. PG&E was later convicted of Murder One for negligance in a directly related incident. Secondly, coal powered electricity in the central Atlantic States is a bastion of insider politics linked to law enforcement. They have their nati…

I didn't say anything about the effectiveness of said governance.

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing. Do you think that prohibiting the government from collecting data about utilities will help them regulate them more effectively? I don't really think that's the case.

The reason that some want to limit the data that is collected is exactly the regulatory capture problem you're referring to. Private industry doesn't want data being captured which sheds light on any issues they're causing. No news is good news for those who have attained regulatory capture.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#58

Post by alchemist1e9 »

singleshot_ wrote: post #41
roamerz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I opened a laundromat I doubt I’d need to fill out something for the DOE. I think this is nothing more than another agency using the DOE for a conduit to get that information for them.

If thousands of people cooperate to create a global money laundering operation that directly affects the power grid it makes sense to request some information from them.

Bugger off. Bitcoin is coming no matter what you think and eventually it will smack some responsibility into the irresponsible governments that are actually the biggest polluters and encouraging waste and consumption though endless fiat money printing and civilization scale money laundering.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#59

Post by makapuf »

sackfield wrote: post #50
makapuf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but natural resources are unlikely to grow. Unregulated market forces lead to hell (and of course also is too much regulation)

They don't need to grow, efficiency can grow though as very aptly demonstrated in the 20th century.

Thermodynamics sometimes say that you can't. Also, if I can mine $x coins for y energy, I will generate a bit more of $money and remove natural resources. Value of coins may not keep their value in 2000 years, but co2 ppm/ecosystems/metals/whatever won't be there anymore, unless we know how to deal with them, that we may or we may not.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#60

Post by singleshot_ »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #58
singleshot_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If thousands of people cooperate to create a global money laundering operation that directly affects the power grid it makes sense to request some information from them.

Bugger off. Bitcoin is coming no matter what you think and eventually it will smack some responsibility into the irresponsible governments that are actually the biggest polluters and encouraging waste and consumption though endless fiat money printing and civilization scale money laundering.

Lovely language.

Bitcoin isn’t “coming,” it’s here and it’s a nightmare. People lose money down this drain every day and there’s next to no way to get it back. A serious transnational criminal problem that must be addressed and if the government wants to keep tabs on who profits from this, that’s be great.

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