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The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

joanwestenberg.com

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Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#141

Post by inglor_cz »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #104
karaterobot wrote: post #99

Subscription services like Patreon are the only way I give people money unless they sell a product I want. I'm not going to watch commercials, and I'll skip sponsored videos or segments every time. If the idea is that not enough people use Patreon for you to make money, then go ahead and run advertisements, I'll just move on down the road to someone else. If the idea is that Patreon in particular is bad—that it takes…

Reality is the vast majority of people will absolutely refuse to pay content creators. Even legit newspapers with large staffs can’t get people to subscribe. Most people are ok with ads though. Your best bet is some sort of split where a small niche try’s to go subscription because there’s no chance of a widespread content creator subscription service that can replace ads.

As an author ...

People will gladly buy physical books off you, but they won't pay for articles. There seems to be a mental barrier between those two. A physical book in your hand probably feels more real, though the total amount of work isn't that different (to a series of articles).

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#142

Post by mrguyorama »

miragecraft wrote: post #116

What happens if the creator just say no? You don't have to operate like a VC-funded company and look for infinite growth, if you want to stay small with cheap production then just stay small? There's likely a silent majority that supported the creator because they are authentic and relatable. Just make it clear to your supporters that's your objective and don't expect more.

Right, the people who harass you to "more more more MORE" and "better better BETTER" are NOT the people you want to enable and encourage. Usually they have a parasocial relationship with you and that just feeds into it. They also are enormously entitled and when you eventually burn out trying to keep up with their insatiable needs, they will be irrationally upset at you.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#143

Post by HDThoreaun »

inglor_cz wrote: post #141
HDThoreaun wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is the vast majority of people will absolutely refuse to pay content creators. Even legit newspapers with large staffs can’t get people to subscribe. Most people are ok with ads though. Your best bet is some sort of split where a small niche try’s to go subscription because there’s no chance of a widespread content creator subscription service that can replace ads.

As an author ... People will gladly buy physical books off you, but they won't pay for articles. There seems to be a mental barrier between those two. A physical book in your hand probably feels more real, though the total amount of work isn't that different (to a series of articles).

Zero marginal cost structure of the internet has conditioned everyone to thinking digital goods should be free. Remember that anti piracy ad with "you wouldnt download a car" and literally everyone was like "of course I would download a car if I could"

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#144

Post by johnnyanmac »

djaychela wrote: post #64
johnnyanmac wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it just me, or has youtube recommendations become almost unusable by now? It's honestly the opposite for me. It's scary good at finding content related to my recent history, and it's even gotten better at directing me towards even toward very small ( But yes, if you take even a step towards some semblance of clickbait, or even hover over some random video too long, your feed will suddenly transform into a flood…

> it's even gotten better at directing me towards even toward very small ( The cynic in me thinks this is because if you have under 1k subs you can't claim any ad revenue...

Yeah, that's shy I mentioned I have premium. I apparently have some disproportionate weight with my view and there's less incentive to try and make me watch more popular or longer videos, I imagine. That can definitely change how and what they put in my feed.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#145

Post by lewismenelaws »

mrguyorama wrote: post #139
lewismenelaws wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve done sponsorships for a while now, we have contracts specifying that any changes they make is minor at most. Business sense is really important when dealing with this.

Okay, but I don't want to watch businesspeople, I want to watch what this person is making/doing/writing/etc! That's the whole point! Patreon means I can just give them dollars for doing a good job, and they don't have to go get an associates degree in marketing to realize that sponsorships are lowballing them entire magnitudes. I consider this infinitely better to a creator selling my attention, for pennies on the d…

You're right! Creators often get short changed from deals like this. All I am saying is that my background has made this career decision for me easy to transition into while making sponsors sustainable.

I know lots of creators who get completely screwed on this front. I am sure the same could happen on Patreon.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#146

Post by RulerOf »

dsir wrote: post #140
karaterobot wrote: post #99

Subscription services like Patreon are the only way I give people money unless they sell a product I want. I'm not going to watch commercials, and I'll skip sponsored videos or segments every time. If the idea is that not enough people use Patreon for you to make money, then go ahead and run advertisements, I'll just move on down the road to someone else. If the idea is that Patreon in particular is bad—that it takes…

I think the issue with Patreon, and a lot of similar services is that they are too focused on the "creator > consumer" relationship. I think the biggest value that a content creator is creating is acting as a beacon that people can rally behind regarding a specific niche and facilitating "consumer > consumer". Their biggest value add is as a curator. It's often difficult, especially for smaller niches to find a dedic…

Most Patreons I've seen use discord to fill that specific social gap, but I've always found it a little odd that they didn't try to fill that niche themselves.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#147

Post by inglor_cz »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #143
inglor_cz wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an author ... People will gladly buy physical books off you, but they won't pay for articles. There seems to be a mental barrier between those two. A physical book in your hand probably feels more real, though the total amount of work isn't that different (to a series of articles).

Zero marginal cost structure of the internet has conditioned everyone to thinking digital goods should be free. Remember that anti piracy ad with "you wouldnt download a car" and literally everyone was like "of course I would download a car if I could"

"of course I would download a car if I could"

LOL at that, you're right.

When it comes to content online, we live in an era of total abundance. This is the sort of abundance that used to be considered utopian. You will literally never run out of excellent texts for free, a mere human just cannot read them fast enough. Same with videos, games etc.

But that abundance has significant downsides for the people who create all that content. Competing with free stuff is a task for Sisyphos.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#148

Post by rchaud »

bell-cot wrote: post #15

Sorry, but the "creator economy" is a mostly-malicious delusion. Sure, it can sound great. And for a very lucky few it probably is great. But the 99% reality is that it's just hype from techo-utopians, wanna-be's, get-rich-quick salesmen, and a bunch of mega-corporate platforms - whose profits are built on the backs of virtual-slave "creator" labor. (Yes, maybe this is a bit too cynical. Maybe. A bit.)

Agreed, the power laws of online content consumption means that the top 10% of creators will accumulate most of the paying suscribers.

"Creator Economy" is a term akin to "Gold Rush", in the sense that it's pushed by VCs looking to sell shovels in the form of a Patreon or Substack.

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#149

Post by sibeliuss »

squigz wrote: post #128
sibeliuss wrote: post #105

Patreon is one of the buggiest, broken websites I've ever visited. I am tempted every time i use it to stop everything and build a competitor.

I've never really encountered many bugs on Patreon - but I do want to see more options in this space, so please do!

There are countless

Re: The creator economy can't rely on Patreon

#150

Post by cruano »

grey_earthling wrote: post #37

Patreon knows that Patreon doesn't work - they don't fund themselves by donations on Patreon; instead they take a cut of other people's donations. And the model where some patrons receive a reward encourages transactionalism and disappointed patrons when they don't get the reward they expected. Liberapay's model seems much more sustainable - donations only, no rewards; Liberapay fund themselves via Liberapay because…

> And the model where some patrons receive a reward encourages transactionalism and disappointed patrons when they don't get the reward they expected.

More than that, I don't think Patreons will ever be able to compete in a world where Netflix/Max/Disney exists just by making content. For example, if you consider the $10 tier of The Command Zone[1], you'd have to weight that in against something like the Disney+ catalog, which I think is even cheaper and definitely has a lot more content?

[1] https://www.patreon.com/commandzone

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