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US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

theguardian.com

11–20 of 92 posts

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#11
post #4

[flagged]

Because that's the point of government: To govern.

Edit: We don't always let people pay "market price" for whatever they want. There's plenty of precedent for rationing: IE, In CA, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you can't water your lawn in a drought. During the 1970s oil embargo, it didn't matter how rich you were, you still had to ration gasoline.

In this case, cryptocurrency is both increasing the cost of electricity for other important needs, like home heating / cooling, and increasing pollution. It's perfectly within the definition of what government does to set reasonable limits for the cryptocurrency industry.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#12
post #3

This is the form that miners allege will cause them irreparable injury and has cost them 40 hours to fill out: https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf

It's big and extremely invasive, and asks questions that are none of the government's business, and definitely none of that agency's business. The form claims it should only take 30 minutes to complete. Laughable. It's 26 pages, and it's not simple, and it begins with a threat that being incorrect is a criminal offense.

It's so long because it has a space for up to 10 crypto facilities, with 2 pages per facility.

So basically 10 questions that need to be answered for a company that has a single crypto facility. And since power is such a large part of costs, I'd be surprised if most don't already know the answers to the power questions.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#13
post #3

This is the form that miners allege will cause them irreparable injury and has cost them 40 hours to fill out: https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf

It's big and extremely invasive, and asks questions that are none of the government's business, and definitely none of that agency's business. The form claims it should only take 30 minutes to complete. Laughable. It's 26 pages, and it's not simple, and it begins with a threat that being incorrect is a criminal offense.

The stability and security of energy generation in the US is in fact the DOE's business.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#14
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something exceptional about a major industry being asked to be transparent about its energy usage?

Fair enough, but why isn’t every business/industry subject to this? Maybe all data centers, farmers, etc should have to provide detailed reporting on the energy they use.

https://eta.lbl.gov/publications/united-states-data-center-e... ( 3.5 MB pdf for the full report https://eta-publications.lbl.gov/sites/default/files/lbnl-10... )

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/data-centers-and-serve...

https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-google-microsoft-green-cl...

They do / have.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#15
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something exceptional about a major industry being asked to be transparent about its energy usage?

Usually the government conducts periodic surveys to analyze energy usage across major industries, eg [0], [1], [2], etc. What's so exceptional about this industry? I would think a survey would be very straightforward. The only input is energy! [0] https://www.eia.gov/consumption/manufacturing/ [1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/cecomparison/recs_profile.htm [2] https://www.nass.usda.gov/Surveys/Guide_to_NASS_Surveys/Ag_R...

> What's so exceptional about this industry?

Perhaps that a large portion of the population considers the market a grift?

Perhaps that a large portion of the population has anxiety about climate change?

I don't want people burning (huge amounts of) energy for nothing, but that's just me.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#16
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something exceptional about a major industry being asked to be transparent about its energy usage?

Fair enough, but why isn’t every business/industry subject to this? Maybe all data centers, farmers, etc should have to provide detailed reporting on the energy they use.

I imagine in general the data is already provided by the power company. The issue here is overlap between general data center power usage or residential power usage and crypto mining power usage, which isn’t as easy for the power company to discern.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#18

This is the form that miners allege will cause them irreparable injury and has cost them 40 hours to fill out: https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf

Filling out any form for the federal government is actually a big deal, because you incur huge legal liability by being wrong (criminal, if they decide you were lying). Submitting regulatory documents goes through a lot of legal review for a reason, you can't just "spitball" the numbers.

Baloney. Any government form I've filled out gives that vibe, sure. And then when you're wrong, you don't get a fucking prison sentence, you get a phone call where someone explains why they think you're wrong and asks you to take a stab at it.

Also, every form from the Government I've ever filled out that is binding in terms of accuracy goes out of it's way, where you sign (which this one, to my looking, I don't even see where you sign!) to say that "you certify that this information is accurate and correct to the best of your knowledge which like, the deniability there is a mile fucking wide.

I, personally, as a citizen of both the United States and the larger world would very much like to know how much energy is being pissed away on crypto nonsense. I don't care if that's hard for you, if you can't be arsed to fill out a form, then shut down your stupid mining rigs.

Edit: For an example of this: I straight up forgot to include a large gift from a family member in my taxes one year. I never once saw a cop, was threatened, or anything else: I got two letters, one from the IRS, and one from the state, detailing that they found I had forgotten it during an audit, and I owed them.... IIRC it was a G and a half, thereabouts. If I disagreed and wanted to question their findings, I had to reply with the requisite documentation and a signed statement explaining why I felt what I did. If not, I could accept the judgement, and they included the paperwork to setup a payment plan if I couldn't afford it right away.

This "big government so scary" shit just is not reality. Every government institution I've dealt with (apart from the police, of course) approaches everyone in good faith, arguably even when they shouldn't. The ONLY way you can really get the G-men on your ass is if you're purposely going out of your way and doing fraudulent or illegal shit. Like the IRS doesn't even give a damn if you sell drugs, they just demand Uncle Sam gets his cut.

Re: US judge halts government effort to monitor crypto mining energy use

#20
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something exceptional about a major industry being asked to be transparent about its energy usage?

Usually the government conducts periodic surveys to analyze energy usage across major industries, eg [0], [1], [2], etc. What's so exceptional about this industry? I would think a survey would be very straightforward. The only input is energy! [0] https://www.eia.gov/consumption/manufacturing/ [1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/cecomparison/recs_profile.htm [2] https://www.nass.usda.gov/Surveys/Guide_to_NASS_Surveys/Ag_R...

> What's so exceptional about this industry?

They move more often than most in search of cheap power is likely the reason.

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