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Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

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Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#101

Post by Gare »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #94
lm28469 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People at war causing damage to the infrastructure of their enemy isn't that surprising really

I don't have a deep understanding of the politics of the region. The reason I asked was I hoped that someone with a better understanding would explain it. However, I don't see how making the internet a little slower between Africa, Europe, and India really hurt "the enemy". Perhaps it's just that I don't know who "the enemy" is. If we accept that the Houthis are responsible this action would make it seem like the Hou…

> this action would make it seem like the Houthis actually have grievances with the majority of the non-Houthis world.

They have "death to America" literally written on their banner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#102

Post by Pet_Ant »

pjc50 wrote: post #78
thinkingemote wrote: post #35

In neal stephensons 1996 classic wired article Mother Earth Mother Board theres a bit in there about why cables are not attacked. "There is also the obvious threat of sabotage by a hostile government, but, surprisingly, this almost never happens. When cypherpunk Doug Barnes was researching his Caribbean project, he spent some time looking into this, because it was exactly the kind of threat he was worried about in th…

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/content/purposes-and-prin... : "prohibits the threat or use of force and calls on all Members to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of other States". The post-WW2 peace structure was built around a prohibition on aggressive war and sub-war violations of the integrity of other states. This hasn't always held, and once we get into a situation whe…

> the only group that was an even worse influence on the stability of the region than either of them: ISIS

To be clear, ISIS is great for stability. It's not the stability we want, but they do definitely provide stability. We may not like them, but there are reasons that people living in chaos or extreme poverty choose to support them over alternatives. The Taliban didn't triumph in Afghanistan without it's fans.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#103

Post by sharpshadow »

mc32 wrote: post #60

These incidents are interesting due to because of how people like to assign blame or not. Nordstream 2? Of course it was Russians despite how illogical it was. This cable? No way the Houthis despite them saying they would attack them. The prejudice is interesting.

Maybe because the Houthis clearly stated that all their efforts are linked to the Gaza conflict.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#104

Post by bhpm »

pjc50 wrote: post #78
thinkingemote wrote: post #35

In neal stephensons 1996 classic wired article Mother Earth Mother Board theres a bit in there about why cables are not attacked. "There is also the obvious threat of sabotage by a hostile government, but, surprisingly, this almost never happens. When cypherpunk Doug Barnes was researching his Caribbean project, he spent some time looking into this, because it was exactly the kind of threat he was worried about in th…

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/content/purposes-and-prin... : "prohibits the threat or use of force and calls on all Members to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of other States". The post-WW2 peace structure was built around a prohibition on aggressive war and sub-war violations of the integrity of other states. This hasn't always held, and once we get into a situation whe…

The post WWII peace structure was based on an agreement between the US and other countries: we pay you money, we patrol the shipping lanes with our navy which is the only one left, and you side with us against the Soviet Union.

Once the Soviet Union imploded, there was little reason for this to be maintained and, sure enough, here we are.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#105

Post by stevenAthompson »

Gare wrote: post #101
stevenAthompson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a deep understanding of the politics of the region. The reason I asked was I hoped that someone with a better understanding would explain it. However, I don't see how making the internet a little slower between Africa, Europe, and India really hurt "the enemy". Perhaps it's just that I don't know who "the enemy" is. If we accept that the Houthis are responsible this action would make it seem like the Hou…

> this action would make it seem like the Houthis actually have grievances with the majority of the non-Houthis world. They have "death to America" literally written on their banner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement

> "Allah is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"

How utterly wretched must a life be before a cause like this cause could appeal to someone?

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#106

Post by k99x55 »

pjc50 wrote: post #78
thinkingemote wrote: post #35

In neal stephensons 1996 classic wired article Mother Earth Mother Board theres a bit in there about why cables are not attacked. "There is also the obvious threat of sabotage by a hostile government, but, surprisingly, this almost never happens. When cypherpunk Doug Barnes was researching his Caribbean project, he spent some time looking into this, because it was exactly the kind of threat he was worried about in th…

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/content/purposes-and-prin... : "prohibits the threat or use of force and calls on all Members to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of other States". The post-WW2 peace structure was built around a prohibition on aggressive war and sub-war violations of the integrity of other states. This hasn't always held, and once we get into a situation whe…

> I do think the US breach of this principle by invading Iraq did a colossal amount of damage

The US has done many many breaches of international law since post-WW2

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#107

Post by renewiltord »

Gare wrote: post #101
stevenAthompson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a deep understanding of the politics of the region. The reason I asked was I hoped that someone with a better understanding would explain it. However, I don't see how making the internet a little slower between Africa, Europe, and India really hurt "the enemy". Perhaps it's just that I don't know who "the enemy" is. If we accept that the Houthis are responsible this action would make it seem like the Hou…

> this action would make it seem like the Houthis actually have grievances with the majority of the non-Houthis world. They have "death to America" literally written on their banner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement

That's the clearest mission statement anyone could have made. Obviously places them as the enemy but you have to admire the clarity.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#108

Post by pjc50 »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #105
Gare wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this action would make it seem like the Houthis actually have grievances with the majority of the non-Houthis world. They have "death to America" literally written on their banner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement

> "Allah is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam" How utterly wretched must a life be before a cause like this cause could appeal to someone?

Yemen is an incredibly wretched place (Gulf state with very little of either oil or water), but this is a very Iranian slogan. They're still mad about the US-backed revolution in the way that Miami Cubans are still mad about the Communist revolution in Cuba.

Re: Submarine cables linking Africa-Asia-Europe severed

#110

Post by pjc50 »

bhpm wrote: post #104
pjc50 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/content/purposes-and-prin... : "prohibits the threat or use of force and calls on all Members to respect the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of other States". The post-WW2 peace structure was built around a prohibition on aggressive war and sub-war violations of the integrity of other states. This hasn't always held, and once we get into a situation whe…

The post WWII peace structure was based on an agreement between the US and other countries: we pay you money, we patrol the shipping lanes with our navy which is the only one left, and you side with us against the Soviet Union. Once the Soviet Union imploded, there was little reason for this to be maintained and, sure enough, here we are.

The USSR was never the only threat in the world, as we can see here. There's an awful lot of neutral shipping going through the Suez canal as well.

The US has been striking a very awkward balance between "we want our allies to spend more on their military and do more of their own defence" versus "but not enough to be an independent power". Resulting in odd things like the UK "independent" nuclear deterrent that has to be returned to the US for servicing, or the JSDF "helicopter carrier" (definitely NOT an aircraft carrier, despite the big long flat deck, because that would be prohibited under treaty).

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