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Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

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Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#101

Post by anthomtb »

dheera wrote: post #66
jseliger wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less spicy is actually good. I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice. Mark Miller's conversation with Tyler Cowen is good on this subject: https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/mark-miller/ . Chiles are actually fruits and, combined judiciously, create a lot of complex flavors. Excess spiciness overwhelms the flavor. And people who want absurdly spicy peppers, can get them: ghost chiles, carolina reaper…

I really wish we could have a habanero that is 1/4 as spicy. I LOVE the flavor of habaneros but their spiciness prevents me from putting too much. That said on the flavor/spiciness scale a lot of the Chinese varieties are excellent. The chili peppers used in Sichuanese cuisine are actually not that spicy compared to habaneros or Thai chilis, which allows it to be possible to dump a bag full into a dish and it gives i…

When using hot peppers I remove some of, or all, of the seeds and pith. You can greatly control the amount of heat this way since the seeds and pith have the most concentrated capsaicin.

Maybe habanero is too potent for that strategy but it works well on jalapeno, serrano, and whatever they grow in Hatch, NM.

(and it should be obvious but wear disposable gloves if you do this, unless you want the worst wank of your life).

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#102

Post by ethbr1 »

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Other, and my favorite, example -- bananas

Because the plants are reproduced asexually by cloning, exactly what you would expect happened, and a disease wiped out the monoculture fields (Gros Michel variety) of the early 1900s in the 50s and 60s.

Which we then replanted in purportedly less flavorful Cavendish, which was resistant to the then-dominant fungus.

Cue the new Panama fungal disease (Tropical Race 4) that Cavendishes are susceptible to, and we'll see what the future holds...

Maybe in 2085, grandparents will be waxing poetic about how they used to be able to get bananas everywhere cheaply.

It's fascinating to think that such a staple ("a banana") is completely different from the one people ate 60 years ago. And that they largely didn't exist in the United States grocery system 60 years before that.

Ref: https://www.vox.com/2016/3/29/11320900/banana-rise

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#103

Post by tptacek »

ethbr1 wrote: post #90
eichin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've seen boston-area college students successfully grow szechuan peppers on a south facing (outdoor but sheltered) balcony - with exactly as much neglect as you'd expect from undergrads in a shared apartment. "Absurdly easy" is not an exaggeration.

Seriously. I think it's the relatively dry fruit output + innate waxy toughness, but of all the bearing plants, peppers can take the most "Oops, I forgot to water you for days... weeks?"

As luck would have it: watering peppers generously makes them less spicy.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#104

Post by tptacek »

arprocter wrote: post #88
silverquiet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I like the occasional wildcard pepper - sometimes variety is (literally) the spice of life.

I'm not sure if it's the same for jalapeños, but supposedly shishitos from the same plant can vary in heat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishito I grew Apache chilis and there was definite variance - one year the green fruits were napalm, the next they literally tasted like bells (until they turned red...)

Sishitos notoriously vary wildly. In every bunch, even at restaurants, there's a ringer that will blow your head off.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#105

Post by tptacek »

delfinom wrote: post #86
tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Brussel sprouts are a bad example. They are the bastard product of hundred of years of human fuckery to turn the same plant into kale, sprouts, broccoli and more.

Sign me up for team fuckery, then, because those are all my favorite vegetables.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#106

Post by temp0826 »

yellowapple wrote: post #46
quickslowdown wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spice is an evolved defense mechanism, so if it's not needed, the peppers eventually stop producing it. Couple that with us intentionally selecting for things other than spice, and within a few generations you have a less spicy pepper. Note I'm not any kind of qualified to talk on this topic. I'm sure someone can give a better & more accurate answer!

It's indeed a defense mechanism, but (from what I understand) it has less to do with bugs and more to do with mammals; pepper plants started surrounding the seeds with capsaicin to ward off mammals (which chew up and destroy the seeds) while still being palatable to birds (which ingest the seeds whole and "drop them off" elsewhere). Then a certain species of primate decided "Grug inflict pain on self, makes Grug happ…

No problem for birds either who don't have the taste buds for capsaicin. I had to buy spicy bird food for a while to ward off the squirrels. A little cruel maybe.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#107

Post by bb88 »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #94
squokko wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your palate has been desensitized and can only taste flavor with heat. Spend 2 months with zero capsaicin and it will reset.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I enjoy plenty of non-spicy foods, and don't need every meal to be spicy, nor to I think that the only flavorful meals are spicy meals. My point is exclusively with chili peppers, as the spice increases so does the flavor. I didn't grow up eating spicy food, and my experience has been that as my spice tolerance has grown overtime I have found access to increasingly won…

That's interesting, I am curious if it's the capsaicin itself you're tasting directly.

I know I've had hot sauces that were just heat without any kind of real flavor. It's not that I couldn't taste it. I could, I just didn't want any more of it.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#108

Post by lmm »

ethbr1 wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Other, and my favorite, example -- bananas Because the plants are reproduced asexually by cloning, exactly what you would expect happened, and a disease wiped out the monoculture fields (Gros Michel variety) of the early 1900s in the 50s and 60s. Which we then replanted in purportedly less flavorful Cavendish, which was resistant to the then-dominant fungus. Cue the new Panama fungal disease (Tropical Race 4) that Ca…

> It's fascinating to think that such a staple ("a banana") is completely different from the one people ate 60 years ago.

The most interesting one to me is that US "bacon" and UK "bacon" are completely different things. But because of cultural crossover they get used for the same dishes, and people often don't realise the recipe they're working from was talking about something else.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#109

Post by mc32 »

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Agree with all the above. Also, I quite prefer not having super-hot peppers. I've known people who consume hot peppers and they eventually ended up with stomach issues. Maybe it does not affect everyone... In any event, I prefer milder flavors over something which overwhelms. Then again, I probably like cheeses that could overwhelm some people.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#110

Post by taeric »

mattnewton wrote: post #97
taeric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today I learn that Brussel sprouts have changed on us. Odd, as I loved them as a kid, and still love them as an adult. Curious how genetic noticing that flavor shift is. Is it akin to how some folks hate cilantro? And agreed that this all seems fine. The heat of these peppers is directly added to things that people want to have heat. I see some folks say they can taste differences, but I have stopped buying dips that…

Yup it’s kinda like cilantro - you might not have the genes for tasting glucosinolates, the bitter compounds that have been bred down to lower levels in modern Brussels sprouts. Some people apparently don’t taste them, but they are very bitter to most.

This has me more curious, as I love "bitter" things. Was commenting in another thread that I hate arabica coffee, and most people's complaint on robusta is that it is bitter. Finally had some grapefruit for the first time in a long time recently. Still love that stuff. If a bit worried on how much it supposedly interacts with medicine.
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