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Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

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Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#71

Post by ericra »

stevage wrote: post #34

I've never seen the word "breed" applied to plant cultivars before. Is that a common American thing?

It's common when talking about peppers since there are so many varieties of the same species. I guess cultivar, variety, and breed are mostly synonymous except that cultivar (to me) implies that human intervention was involved in the selecting. Variety can be used to mean the same thing but naturally without human intervention. And breed seems to be a more colloquial term that encompasses both of these.

I'm not entirely sure this is always accurate, but that is the distinction afaik.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#72

Post by bsder »

jseliger wrote: post #24
tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Less spicy is actually good. I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice. Mark Miller's conversation with Tyler Cowen is good on this subject: https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/mark-miller/ . Chiles are actually fruits and, combined judiciously, create a lot of complex flavors. Excess spiciness overwhelms the flavor. And people who want absurdly spicy peppers, can get them: ghost chiles, carolina reaper…

> Less spicy is actually good. I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice.

Then buy a poblano instead of a jalapeño and leave the jalapeños alone?

The problem isn't just that they have less heat. Anything which becomes "industrial" loses all of the characteristics that "industrial" doesn't select for.

This includes spice, flavor, juiciness, nutrition, scent, etc.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#73

Post by jghn »

silverquiet wrote: post #28
tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

I think I like the occasional wildcard pepper - sometimes variety is (literally) the spice of life.

It depends. Variance can be a huge issue when cooking peppers into a dish. It's not just as simple as waiting to the end and testing heat levels. For most mass grown varieties they've gotten things to be pretty steady. Even though I agree it's disappointing for other reasons at least I don't have to worry that adding a 2nd habanero to a stew will make it inedible.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#75

Post by sitharus »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #64
tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Has something similar been done with onions to make them sting less? Nowadays they don't bother me whereas when I was growing up, decades ago, I couldn't cut one without tears.

Yes, there are modern cultivars that have far lower levels, or in some cases none, of the irritating compounds. These cultivars only grown in certain conditions so in markets that have seasonal growing you’ll notice some times of the year you get tears and some you don’t.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#76

Post by radicalbyte »

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

I loved the old sprouts, they had a nice sharp tang. The modern variety are just bland. Even when honey glazed and seared in a pan / grill plate.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#77

Post by ericra »

I love jalapenos/chipotles but there are so many great pepper varieties out there, and I sometimes wonder why they are not mass produced as much.

For instance, I love hatch (Nex Mexico) chiles, but they seem quite difficult to get fresh outside of the region or at least during a very particular time of year. They are so much more flavorful than jalepenos imo, and have a similar amount of spice (not much). At least they are typically available canned, and they are still great.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#78

Post by taeric »

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Today I learn that Brussel sprouts have changed on us. Odd, as I loved them as a kid, and still love them as an adult. Curious how genetic noticing that flavor shift is. Is it akin to how some folks hate cilantro?

And agreed that this all seems fine. The heat of these peppers is directly added to things that people want to have heat. I see some folks say they can taste differences, but I have stopped buying dips that are "hot" as they almost always taste the exact same, but have a burning flavor that lingers longer. Curious how much of this is my not being able to taste the differences, or others thinking that they can.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#79

Post by tptacek »

foobarian wrote: post #68
tptacek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's super weird, right? Because they could just dope the sriracha batches back to whatever level of heat they want. I make fermented hot sauce once a year, and I end up doing that too? And I'm a dummy? Are we sure this isn't just a market shift thing? Like: maybe they lost some heat unintentionally or unknowingly, but then sales went up?

Speaking of fermented hot sauce, do you have some recommendations? I've been trying to find a way to recreate Frank's buffalo sauce but pretty much every recipe found online uses Frank's buffalo sauce itself as an ingredient :-). I suspect the secret is some long-running fermentation process sorcery.

I just dump a bunch of peppers into a kimchi bucket, ferment, then boil it out with vinegar and stuff. There's not much science to mine. :)

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#80

Post by mathgeek »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #63
jseliger wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less spicy is actually good. I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice. Mark Miller's conversation with Tyler Cowen is good on this subject: https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/mark-miller/ . Chiles are actually fruits and, combined judiciously, create a lot of complex flavors. Excess spiciness overwhelms the flavor. And people who want absurdly spicy peppers, can get them: ghost chiles, carolina reaper…

> I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice. As someone with a fairly high spice tolerance, I've found a strong correlation between heat and flavor . I think anyone coming from a culture that eats spicy food will agree. I had a batch of habaneros I grew last summer that were both the most spicy habaneros I've had, and by far the most flavorful. I've also had some very tasty ghost peppers (when used in moderatio…

As someone who also prefers the taste that comes along with spice, best reasoning I have heard is folks who don’t like spice cannot even taste the flavor that comes with it, so they associate milder peppers as tasting better. I.e. when you are screaming for water you don’t stop to consider the flavor (or you may not even taste it at all as your brain tells you to go into flight mode).
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