Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#41

Post by dekhn » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:42 PM UTC

stevage wrote: post #34

I've never seen the word "breed" applied to plant cultivars before. Is that a common American thing?

You mean, like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank#Classical_plant... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank#Intraspecific_b... ? Are you talking about specifically using "breed" (noun) to refer to a cultivar, or "breed" (verb) to refer to the process by which we obtain new cultivars/

Either way, the term is used colloquially throughout the US (and probably more) to refer to the industrial products of plant breeding.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#42

Post by michael1999 » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Sniff. I miss the old brussels sprouts. The don't freeze anymore without turning to mush. But I'll give you broccolini -- it's a great addition.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#43

Post by eichin » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #14

ramraj07 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be the funniest responses to the problem at hand: peppers not spicy enough? grow your own..

Have you never grown peppers? It really is absurdly easy. The point though really isn't that everyone's just going to grow their own peppers; rather, it's that it's very easy to introduce an alternate supply of highly-variable jalapenos, because there aren't many barriers to producing them. There are urban garden companies in Chicago that produce lettuce right now and could probably produce jalapenos if anybody reall…

Yeah, I've seen boston-area college students successfully grow szechuan peppers on a south facing (outdoor but sheltered) balcony - with exactly as much neglect as you'd expect from undergrads in a shared apartment. "Absurdly easy" is not an exaggeration.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#44

Post by akavi » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

thrwwycbr wrote: post #18

episteme wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do bug bites increase spice?

They release enzymes necessary for the spice/acid production. The acid counteracts those enzymes. If you cut open peppers, you can see the black veins which were bit by bugs, those are the ones containing the carbon acid. A better way to protect them against virusses but not against bugs that won't harm them is by combining the top of peppers with the root of potatoes, and by using moss to heal the cuts where you com…

"The acid"? Capsaicin (the compound responsible for a pepper's "heat") is not an acid.

Also, I've never noticed "black veins" in any peppers I've prepared, including very spicy ones.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#45

Post by buran77 » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

> today's (delicious) sprouts aren't the same plant as the (gross) sprouts of yore

For what it's worth, your (adult) tastes probably changed more than the vegetable itself. Even with the reduction in glucosinolates, few children would call brussels sprouts "delicious". Children are born with a preference for sweetness, while disliking bitter tastes. Both of these traits diminish as they reach adulthood. [0]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4654709/

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#46

Post by yellowapple » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

quickslowdown wrote: post #23

episteme wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do bug bites increase spice?

The spice is an evolved defense mechanism, so if it's not needed, the peppers eventually stop producing it. Couple that with us intentionally selecting for things other than spice, and within a few generations you have a less spicy pepper. Note I'm not any kind of qualified to talk on this topic. I'm sure someone can give a better & more accurate answer!

It's indeed a defense mechanism, but (from what I understand) it has less to do with bugs and more to do with mammals; pepper plants started surrounding the seeds with capsaicin to ward off mammals (which chew up and destroy the seeds) while still being palatable to birds (which ingest the seeds whole and "drop them off" elsewhere).

Then a certain species of primate decided "Grug inflict pain on self, makes Grug happy" and the rest is history.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#47

Post by tempsy » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

If you have had Huy Fong Sriracha recently you’ll probably notice that it is less spicy than it used to be.

Apparently they were in a multi year lawsuit with their jalapeño pepper supplier based in SoCal that is specifically known for spiciness and they lost and started buying jalapeños elsewhere.

Then the pepper farmer started selling his own Sriracha sauce.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#48

Post by lupusreal » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #24

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

Less spicy is actually good. I prefer more flavorful chiles, with less spice. Mark Miller's conversation with Tyler Cowen is good on this subject: https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/mark-miller/ . Chiles are actually fruits and, combined judiciously, create a lot of complex flavors. Excess spiciness overwhelms the flavor. And people who want absurdly spicy peppers, can get them: ghost chiles, carolina reaper…

The way commercially packaged jalapenos are now is closer to no-heat than low heat. You could swap them with chopped bell peppers and most people probably wouldn't notice the difference (and many like my father would still complain that the dish is too spicy.)

Particularly the chopped and canned/jarred jalapenos; I used to buy them for pizzas and chilis but they're just not worth it anymore.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#49

Post by tptacek » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

progmetaldev wrote: post #22

ramraj07 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has got to be the funniest responses to the problem at hand: peppers not spicy enough? grow your own..

As someone that loves hot sauce, including fermenting my own, it's unfortunate that it does actually require growing your own if you want a lot of heat along with flavor. Using capsaicin extracts will give you heat, but often little flavor (or no flavor if you go hot enough).

If you're just making a fermented hot sauce, why not just use serranos? The serrano is basically the consistently hot jalapeno you're looking from; it's just less plump and so less useful as a popper or whatever. And, of course, if you really wanted heat, you'd be using scotch bonnets anyways.

Re: Why jalapeño peppers are less spicy (2023)

#50

Post by eichin » Mon, Feb 26, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #27

tptacek wrote: post #11

The reason I took away from this: large agricultural producers of peppers bred towards a "low heat, low variance" standard, away from a "high variance" standard that produced frequent hot jalapenos. Low-heat-low-variance is better for mass food production, because producers can just dose the capsaicin directly, which is something they can't do easily when every pepper is a wildcard. There are second-order effects, li…

This is why I can actually Jalapeño now! Also, Brussel Sprouts still taste like gym socks or bad cabbage to me.

Really, though, the true innovation in brussels sprouts was figuring out that you could roast them with bacon and some maple or balsamic glaze. ("Yes, that would also make the box they came in taste good")