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Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

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Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#321

Post by valval »

toss1 wrote: post #212
Fin_Code wrote: post #21

I'm pretty sure a lot of this is connected to the bond market. Companies are running out of operating capitol. When they try and get an operating loan the terms are onerous. Rather than refinance they are electing to perform layoffs to maintain solvency. It does not matter how good you are doing in contrast to previous years. If your loan comes due and you can't afford another one to keep that revolving credit going…

Yup. And this is why smart companies avoid that game. I know one regional company who sells nationally/internationally which has done that for decades. Decades ago, the owner asked the local bank for a growth loan for some equipment and was turned down. The next week, he found out that one of his employees, who depends 100% on his company for income, went to the same bank for a motorcycle loan and was approved. the b…

Banks are actually everyone’s friend, there’s a crazy amount of demand for those services for a good reason. Governments aren’t.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#322

Post by valval »

tareqak wrote: post #99

What about when companies are doing layoffs but still continue hire at exactly the same time ? Sometimes, they even hire for the same positions that were just laid off. Are there ever conversations where employees are asked to take a pay cut instead of being laid off?

Companies firing people and hiring more capable people to replace them? What a horrible practice indeed.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#323

Post by valval »

tsunamifury wrote: post #131
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #111

"Our Company is Doing So Well That You're All Fired" The title seems to presume that "you all" are contributing to the company doing so well. If you're not, then firing you will have no effect on the company doing well or not, except it will reduce costs. Arguably the company may do better without you as by firing you they have reduced costs.

This is, roundly, impossible to measure in real time as investments take long time horizons to mature. But its easy to self-justify as survivorship bias.

If you think there are no reliable ways to measure employee productivity I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#324

Post by p1esk »

valval wrote: post #315
p1esk wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these tasks you listed - what makes you think an average CEO knows how to do any of them? How do you know if the company is doing well because of the CEO or despite them?

You might want to go with Occam’s razor here and admit that there’s probably no conspiracy going on with incapable executives running companies, and instead the right hiring choices are being made.

I prefer Hanlon’s razor.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#325

Post by kerkeslager »

valval wrote: post #320
kerkeslager wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would it also be preferable for companies to act as de-facto charities and hire an extra 10% (or an extra hundreds to thousands) of people in order to provide some of the people who are currently out of work a source of income and health insurance? No, that's a low-effort straw man argument. It would be preferable for us to stop trusting companies to provide for people's needs, and build effective systems for provi…

Socialism has never worked and never will.

I'm not even advocating for socialism, or any system of economics. The disagreement is more fundamental than that. I'm advocating for having some compassion and empathy toward human beings.

There are very reasonable arguments to be made that capitalism is the best way to achieve compassionate and empathetic results. But you're not even on board with that more fundamental goal, you're just dismissing it as socialism.

And I AM moralizing here, and I AM personally criticizing you. If you see someone advocating for basic compassion and empathy toward human beings and all you can think is "socialism = fail", you're a bad person. Being able to have compassion and empathy towards others is at the core of any ethical system I can imagine.

Grow a conscience.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#326

Post by complianceowl »

iepathos wrote: post #98
complianceowl wrote: post #23

Isn't this kind of weird? Some try to blame capitalism, but AI is not capitalism. It is technological progress. Every president and dictator, no matter what type of economy or political system they have, are trying to develop AI right now. It's something that goes beyond any economic system and is a fact and force that can't be stopped and one must simply reckon with. What we have in the US today is not capitalism. I…

Oh a semantics argument, lovely. Let me ask you this, what percentage of US trade and industry isn't controlled by private owners for profit? Shareholders count as private owners in case that confuses you since it's public stock that is privately owned. Once you answer that, let me know what percentage is required to classify a country as capitalist.

LOL - Your condescending tone tells me everything I need to know about the type of person that you are and your inability to control your own emotions when talking to someone you disagree with.

And, no -- I did not make a semantics argument. The point of defining capitalism was to emphasize the the fact that the US economy is not a truly capitalistic economy -- Uncle Sam is heavily involved; the article insinuates Capitalism is to blame. But you didn't read the article, did you? No, you didn't.

Also, I know the difference between public and private ownership -- I've worked in corporate law for a number of years. I've literally created the initial shares for newly incorporated public and private corporations. I currently work at a multi-national and we are about to go public, as well. While you Google these things, I do it for a living.

I'd also like to point out that I have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about Shareholders "counting" as private owners". Whether it's a private or public company, both fall under the umbrella of private ownership.

You're lost, bud; hope you have a better day and learn to have a conversation.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#327

Post by valval »

kerkeslager wrote: post #325
valval wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism has never worked and never will.

I'm not even advocating for socialism, or any system of economics. The disagreement is more fundamental than that. I'm advocating for having some compassion and empathy toward human beings. There are very reasonable arguments to be made that capitalism is the best way to achieve compassionate and empathetic results. But you're not even on board with that more fundamental goal, you're just dismissing it as socialism.…

You’re so far off anything reasonable and rational that I don’t even know how to begin addressing your points. Your initial message reads like a person who has taken the first lesson of the first three courses in a political science major trying to describe their self-prescribed problems in the world.

Yes, getting fired is an unpleasant thing and a necessary evil similar to break-ups and falling off a bicycle. Life has its components of suffering, and that’s more than fine.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#328

Post by toss1 »

valval wrote: post #321
toss1 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. And this is why smart companies avoid that game. I know one regional company who sells nationally/internationally which has done that for decades. Decades ago, the owner asked the local bank for a growth loan for some equipment and was turned down. The next week, he found out that one of his employees, who depends 100% on his company for income, went to the same bank for a motorcycle loan and was approved. the b…

Banks are actually everyone’s friend, there’s a crazy amount of demand for those services for a good reason. Governments aren’t.

Good luck with that approach. Just because there is a demand for a service, does not make the provider your friend. Yikes.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#329

Post by kerkeslager »

valval wrote: post #327
kerkeslager wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even advocating for socialism, or any system of economics. The disagreement is more fundamental than that. I'm advocating for having some compassion and empathy toward human beings. There are very reasonable arguments to be made that capitalism is the best way to achieve compassionate and empathetic results. But you're not even on board with that more fundamental goal, you're just dismissing it as socialism.…

You’re so far off anything reasonable and rational that I don’t even know how to begin addressing your points. Your initial message reads like a person who has taken the first lesson of the first three courses in a political science major trying to describe their self-prescribed problems in the world. Yes, getting fired is an unpleasant thing and a necessary evil similar to break-ups and falling off a bicycle. Life h…

Life has a lot more suffering because people like you don't give a shit about causing suffering to others. And it is not in evidence that this example of suffering is a necessary evil.

I'm open to capitalist solutions to the lack of a safety net for people who get fired, but a) you're not proposing any, because you don't see other people's suffering as a problem, i.e. you're an amoral danger to society and b) H.N.-style "all regulation is bad" isn't even capitalism--a free market requires a strong central authority to prevent anticompetitive practices. If you see all government intervention as anti-capitalist it's pretty clear you haven't actually read Adam Smith's works. You aren't even capitalist, you're just pro-corporate for selfish reasons.

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