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Punk is dead and so are we

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Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#181

Post by DontchaKnowit »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #62
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, todays true counterculture is conservative religious communities. There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : fi…

I think it's a bold claim to make, that conservative religious communities are comprised of humans who don't lie, cheat, steal, and have their libido under control. I'm sure some exist, just by dint of probability, but plenty more are made of regular stock humans like you or me, or worse.

you are misunderstanding me - I am saying the act of being traditionally conservative - that is embodying the traditionally conservative values of not lying cheating etc - that is counter-cultural. "conservative communities" do not necessarily embody "traditionally conservative values".

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#182

Post by tonfreed »

bee_rider wrote: post #86

It is funny to note that “Punk is Dead” came out in 1977, but all the action in the article WRT punk is happening in the 90’s and beyond. The author acknowledges this in a way, though: > the only visible instantiation of a subcultural franchise putting on against-the-grain airs similar to those of the punks and goths of the 1990s (who had all been thoroughly domesticated by that point)[…] Anyway, I’m not sure who the…

By blue hair and pronouns crowd, they're referring to the "gay as an aesthetic" types. You don't need to be gay to be queer anymore, it's simply a performative fashion trend to be sold to teenagers at the mall. That's the entire point of the essay.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#184

Post by DontchaKnowit »

silverquiet wrote: post #87
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, todays true counterculture is conservative religious communities. There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : fi…

Which conservative religious community(ies) are you alluding to? That could probably be considered a snarky question, but I really don't know which religions have withstood the prying eyes of modernity; they all seem to have been exposed as about as rotten an institution as their secular counterparts. Perhaps the Amish or something like that? And of course, they have their practices that we would consider unsavory an…

I am not really talking about communities but rather individual qualities.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#185

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ericmcer wrote: post #23

Really good article. Of course Capitalism will package and sell anti-capitalism if that is what makes money. It will try to mirror societies desires, which I don't think is a terrible thing. What should be feared is efforts to manufacture and control what people desire.

> What should be feared is efforts to manufacture and control what people desire.

You think capitalism doesn't do this (too) ?

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#186

Post by ryukoposting »

AndyNemmity wrote: post #119
ryukoposting wrote: post #66

This is a wonderfully-written piece, and it articulates the paradoxical nature of countercultures better than I've ever been able to. Punk Rock is dead, long live Punk Rock. I think there are real artistic countercultures out there, but they exist on the margins of art and society (as they must, innately). They're hard to discover, and even when they are discovered, they're inaccessible, bizarre, and disquieting (as…

I was listening to the Swans in the 90s, and I never felt they were abrasive, or uncomfortable. I don't have much to add, I just felt it was interesting hearing them described through someone else's lens very differently than I would. When I listen to them I hear beauty, and my childhood.

The Swans of my youth is the reunion Swans, so my perspective is probably warped by that. Swans' catalog has a pretty wide gamut of abrasiveness, for sure.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#187

Post by pjmorris »

dfxm12 wrote: post #103
pjmorris wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an old punk ethic was 'Do It Yourself' (DIY), maybe the modern punk equivalent would be 'Do It Offline' (DIO.)

Online or offline has nothing to with doing it yourself or not. Social media, websites, etc. makes organizing events, people, projects incredibly easier and more inclusive. Punk isn't sitting over a xerox machine for a few hours printing flyers. It is actually putting a (music, performance art, benefit, whatever) event together at an all ages venue in a town where live nation owns all the venues and keeps shows 21+ s…

Fair. I'm a big fan of 'Our Band Could Be Your Life', Azerrad, but I've only read it. It sounds like you, or people you know well, are living it out.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#188

Post by pjmorris »

mantas wrote: post #159
Pet_Ant wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing says “Fuck the System!” like solar panels and a wood burning stove I guess? Pithily put. I can definitely attest that this is my plan and the plans of a few others I know. Home baked bread and sour dough starter feel pretty anti-corporate to me. That said, I do recognise that going off grid requires heavy machinery and tools that are produced by the biggest of corporations... but somehow Milwaukee tools see…

Battery-powered power tools ecosystem is pretty close to religion though :| MAKITA!!1!

I am picturing a Braveheart-style battlefield with warriors face-painted in the brand colors of choice, roaring and brandishing various battery-powered implements of destruction.

I am a member of House Ryobi, but only out of accidental convenience not generational loyalty or studied disdain.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#189

Post by InSteady »

watwut wrote: post #102
ericmcer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bit about Cobain's suicide felt like it was probing around something important but blaming it on Capitalism felt a bit off. Cobain would have experienced something similar at any period in history, that is what happens to talented people who rise from the masses. If anything capitalism gave him way more freedom to use his talent how he wanted than any other system would have. I am not an expert on Nirvana but I w…

Afaik he had psychiatric issues that made suicide more likely ... and drug dependence that also made it more likely. He did not even needed to be talented one to rise from the masses, people like him commit suicides more then general population simply out of own suffering. He had bipolar disorder, depression and ADHD.

He also had a severe GI disorder that caused him constant pain, and from what I recall reading, the medical system wasn't able to properly diagnose or treat him (no surprise, our understanding of tricky GI disorders was not terribly advanced in the 90's).

IMO it's likely that some or all of his mental health struggles stemmed from a completely dysfunctional digestive system. In any case, blaming his suicide on capitalism seems like rewriting history to fit one's preferred narrative.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#190

Post by JohnBooty »

friend_and_foe wrote: post #179
JohnBooty wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it looks exactly like what the author says: mainstream, corporate captured product marketing, in group signalling, an aesthetic subculture... i'm well into middle age now, and i have always thought this about "subculture/counterculture" groups in general -- how are you even rebelling when you all look the same? you're conforming, just to the norms of a smaller group. however, you're missing (at least!) a few ma…

It's not a decision I made, it's just my observation. I could be wrong but of course I don't think so. I'm not commenting on the politics of sexuality in Nigeria, I'm talking about western societies. I've been around a lot of gay people and transgender individuals, and never have I once seen them in danger in public. Now, I wasn't around in the 80s or 90s, with the gay bashing and what not, and I understand the pligh…

    I fail to see
Well, yeah.
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