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Punk is dead and so are we

bananapeel.substack.com

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Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#91

Post by silverquiet »

rglover wrote: post #84

Punk (in the conception of anyone born before the internet) is dead because bohemian degeneracy is mainstream. If we go by the standard of "being against the mainstream," today's punks would be people following the advice of the topless antagonist in John Prine's Spanish Pipedream [1]: > Blow up your TV > Throw away your paper > Go to the country > Build you a home > Plant a little garden > Eat a lot of peaches > Try…

Interestingly, the article mentioned Voltaire as a countercultural figure (which I had never considered). But if you were to read "Candide", it would largely agree; the moral is basically to eschew philosophy and cultivate your garden, which could be construed as a metaphor for whatever your garden may be, but in the story is actually a homestead type situation. If you replaced Jesus with "the deity" or something like that, it would also fit.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#92

Post by poszlem »

My main issue with articles like this is they're packed with so much bookish, social and literary theory that they exaggerate their capacity to accurately describe reality.

To put it simply and honestly, we're so caught up in our own culture bubble that we can't see different subcultures for what they are (as has been the case ALWAYS). Instead, we write them off as deviations and psychological anomalies. If you want to get a real sense of these groups, you should observe which groups are overlooked by mainstream media, which ones are derogated for their beliefs, and considered undesirable.

For example, I really think that because of a bunch of reasons, like the threat of a world war and rapid social transformations, we will witness a significant shift towards military-oriented, ultra-masculine groups in the years ahead.

These groups will embrace a nihilistic outlook (the same "no future" slogan we see so often), they will be labeled as incels and fascists (and they largely will be that), yet they will represent truly alternative subcultures to what the mainstream culture presents.

This is btw. not a praise of such groups, it's merely my attempt at pointing out the authors obvious blind spots.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#93

Post by skybrian »

Seems like this analysis is mostly based on entertainment and decades-old history, and as such, it’s going to be fairly out of touch with whatever is going on now. I’m out of touch too, but at least I know it.

Going on about vague abstractions like Capitalism (whatever that is) isn’t going to help since these are mental constructs, not evidence.

A culture based on curiosity and amateur reporting, telling stories about things that actually happened, would probably understand itself better. Many of us are the opposite, keeping anything real private (for understandable reasons) and sharing fantasy stuff, which overwhelms what’s real.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#94

Post by yunwal »

mchinen wrote: post #24

There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…

My take is that “counterculture” is the wrong thing to look for when talking about changing the system. What’s actually going to do that is an entire generation that basically has decided to not try at their jobs and careers.

Previous generations had a substantial number of people who thought that either their jobs could be their passions, or at the very least that doing well at their jobs could lead to a better life. I think Gen-z and below have internalized that trying at your job doesn’t lead to better outcomes, and that’s the real thing that will lead to change.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#95

Post by watwut »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #55
mchinen wrote: post #24

There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…

In my opinion, todays true counterculture is conservative religious communities. There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : fi…

> There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : financially, emotionally, etc)

The drug use is going down, alcoholism is going down, violent crime is going down, there was mini-panique just yesterday on HN over young people having less sex ...

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#96

Post by 2devnull »

Pretty much anything post Sex Pistols is a fashion show. I always sort of felt bad for those kids and the metal nerds. Those I was close to were clearly terrified of the freedom and responsibility of adulthood, and often had tenuous relationships with their fathers, as a rule! My advice: Don’t use music as a form of social identity. Music as music is better than music as fashion.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#99

Post by poszlem »

api wrote: post #63

There are plenty of alternatives to capitalism discussed all over the place. I see them every day. What there aren't are alternatives that are both better and achievable in the real world. Fascism, traditionalism, neo-monarchism, authoritarian forms of socialism, and theocracy are all very real and have both adherents at home and entire societies abroad that attempt to live by their rules. Unfortunately all of them y…

I believe we are on the verge of witnessing an unprecedented challenge to Western capitalism, emanating from China. It's becoming increasingly clear that the West is facing difficulties. The capitalist model, particularly in its current form, is failing to deliver. There's also a notable lack of enthusiasm for it in the global south.

The Chinese model appears to promise greater, superior, and swifter results, with the price tag for the average individual not being particularly steep—it's merely a bit more of your privacy (which has already been bartered and commercialized in the West) and a few liberties ("people are tired of liberty" was probably the most true quote by mussolini).

And boy, can China deliver.

Re: Punk is dead and so are we

#100

Post by not_your_mentat »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #55
mchinen wrote: post #24

There is a sort of nihilism that emerges when you look deeper at counterculture and it's conformity. Neo recognizing with horror the other neos is a great example. (In that case it only worked out for him because of hollywood's love of love - because he loved trinity so much he was really different from the rest.) I've often wondered how the leaders of the hippie, punk, and more modern movements would compare to clas…

In my opinion, todays true counterculture is conservative religious communities. There is nother more counter to the cultural moment then being a traditionally moral, upright citizen who doesnt do drugs, doesnt lie, cheat, steal, has their libido under control, is reliable, whose existence is profitable to the rest of the world (not neccessarily economically, just mean someone who contributes more than they take : fi…

That's a lovely ideal. As a former lifelong Mormon living in Utah, I can attest first hand that the average doesn't resemble the ideal. It's a nice ideal though and it's good to have ideals, as long as you're consistent with them.
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