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Microsoft is driving users away

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Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#351

Post by samcat116 »

zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

> All they had to do was not not change things

I'd argue they should have changed things more.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#352

Post by butlike »

datagrimx wrote: post #169
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make bash, zsh, ... native for Windows Why? There is PowerShell, able to run on Linux and MacOS. And compared to Bash it is actually readable language.

IMO PowerShell is horrible. It is it an object, or not an object. You don't know, unless you know. How about operators? They make ZERO sense (-eq). They went supreme extreme on namespaces. I could write a paper on how bad PowerShell is. You can keep it. I'll stick with zsh or bash.

PowerShell on *nix is a hellscape realm I wasn't previously aware of.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#353

Post by butlike »

felsokning wrote: post #314
timetopay wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh telemetry is really useful for identifying bugs, feature requirements, and security issues. It's anonymized, not really that invasive, and the way they gather it is pretty responsible. However... It's my operating system. Can they not understand why people would be sensitive about this? It blows my mind that, at least, there isn't an on/off toggle in the Pro version. It's really disrespectful to those of us who c…

>It's my operating system. I think part of the problem is that it seems like an internal (corporate) push (shift?) to view it as only a "licensed" product that you're using, rather than as something you "own" on your machine. We saw a bit of this with licensing and product validation. Now, we're seeing it with changes driven by internal (e.g.: corporate command chain) drives. They "need" this data but there's no open…

I like how the mouse tracks in windows over macOS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#354

Post by Night_Thastus »

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

* You can turn off the vast majority of the telemetry, and what little remains can be easily stopped via pihole

* Edge is advertised when you first install Windows, but nothing forces you to use it. I use Firefox with Windows 11 and no mention of Edge appears anywhere now.

* Updates aren't weekly, except maybe security updates. And most updates these days happen unobtrusively in the background.

* They've made great progress with the new Terminal and Powershell apps. They're very good and have more-or-less all the functionality you'd be used to. If you really want more, WSL exists.

* You can turn off anything AI-related. Again, I don't see anything like that on mine.

* You never need to interact with the store, and you can remove it via command if you're really insistent on it.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#355

Post by beretguy »

butlike wrote: post #349
beretguy wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux is still crap software [citation needed]

"The package is corrupted. Please use dpkg to correct it."

Oh… I see… That’s a convincing argument. Well, in such case I see no other option but to use Windows. (/s)

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#357

Post by coldtea »

zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

>All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me

Managers have to justify their role... so they add stuff and come up with new money-making schemes...

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#358

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #255
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To point out the obvious: run auto-update before doing the "crucial thing" and that won't occur. Or pay for the non-consumer oriented editions of Windows that allow full administrative control; they exist. Anybody who could not figure that out is probably not capable of managing Linux properly either.

If a thing sucks, or even merely has some little blemish, the fault is in the thing, and it's entirely fair and rational to say so.

All the moaning and groaning over something trivial to avoid with even a modicum of common sense is neither fair nor rational. Even more so since it's an intentional design decision and it's already well known to be an intentional design decision.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#359

Post by mostlysimilar »

butlike wrote: post #345
pierat wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between: 1. Updates have been applied (in the middle of your crucial thing). Reboot in 60 seconds. Fuck you if you think you can cancel haha. 2. Updates for the following packages are available. Apply: Now or later. Windows is #1. Linux is #2. Linux does it right. Sometimes, you're in the middle of something, and delaying makes sense. But shutting down on a 3d print job, or in the middle of a ga…

Linux also doesn't have the use case of grandma/grandpa. Gunshy small brick and mortar owners, kiosks, banks, employee who doesn't have privileges (both on the system and in writing) to update...the list goes on. Forcefully rolling out the update is the only way it may ever get updated, in a lot of cases.

I'm not grandma. Let me choose.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#360

Post by rolph »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #248
pierat wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between: 1. Updates have been applied (in the middle of your crucial thing). Reboot in 60 seconds. Fuck you if you think you can cancel haha. 2. Updates for the following packages are available. Apply: Now or later. Windows is #1. Linux is #2. Linux does it right. Sometimes, you're in the middle of something, and delaying makes sense. But shutting down on a 3d print job, or in the middle of a ga…

To point out the obvious: run auto-update before doing the "crucial thing" and that won't occur. Or pay for the non-consumer oriented editions of Windows that allow full administrative control; they exist. Anybody who could not figure that out is probably not capable of managing Linux properly either.

forcing shit updates by tying them to security updates, had to be the most effective method for ensuring noncompliance.

security updates should stand alone from vanity, and shit updates.

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