Live data from Hacker News

Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

priceonomics.com

61–70 of 331 posts

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#61

I never understood this one. Not choosing a new door seems like an implied 50/50 choice to keep your original selection. edit: I know it works out on paper, but if I put myself in the situation, I know that if I decided not to choose again that is a choice and I am re-choosing the same door.

The remaining doors are not random. The one you picked still has a 1/3 chance of winning, that doesn't change with opening another door. However switching doors is essentially the same as picking all the other doors at once, since the door with a goat is not opened, thus the 2/3.

Imagine the thing with 100 doors and imagine the host isn't opening any doors, but just telling you what's behind them and it becomes pretty obvious.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#62
I swear this problem only ever causes confusion because the original wording is ambiguous about what the host's motivations are. Once you realize the host is trying to get you to lose and knows what's behind each door and must open a door, then it's clearer that you should switch.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#64

Total aside here, but this article is a good example of the problem, so I just want to point it out. People go digging, usually pretty hard, to find insults to use as capital in whatever point they are trying to make. In this case, yes, she received a lot of criticism and ad-hominem attacks for her correct answer. But she wasn't really criticized for being a woman, despite it being repeated multiple times in the arti…

> But she wasn't really criticized for being a woman Nobody is saying she was criticised for being a woman , though. What they are observing is that it was the basis of and the tenor of attacks on her character, intelligence, certainty etc. It was nasty and it really happened, is all I'm saying. Are we better? I hope so. But I don't know that I think so.

Exactly. Would the tone of the letters been different if the column was said to be have written by a man? Likely they would be different.

This is what makes discussions about discrimination so hard- it can be very subtle. And it can include situations like this one, where we don’t have a test environment where we can compare responses to the article written by a woman to the one written by a man.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#65
post #39

The intuitive way for me to understand the Monte Hall problem is to pretended there are 1000 doors. You pick 1. There’s a 1 in 1000 chance you get it right. The host then opens 998 doors that don’t have the prize. Do you keep your original or do you switch? Are the odds 50:50?

The explanation that worked for me was:

Suppose after you make your initial choice, instead of opening a door, Monty simply asks if you'd like to switch to BOTH the other two doors, such that you win if the prize is behind EITHER of them.

That switch is intuitively a great deal, giving you 2/3 odds. The only way you can lose is in the 1/3rd case where you already picked a winner. The original scenario is equivalent to this, since by revealing a goat Monty is allowing you to pick "the best of" the two doors.

---

Often people who don't like this problem complain that actually Monty, with his knowledge of the winning door, may be trying to trick you into losing. Maybe he offers this trade conditionally based on whether you've already selected a winner. Of course, this wouldn't support the most common intuitive answer of "it's 50/50", either, making this a bad excuse. If we accept this behavior from Monty -- not stated in the problem -- it becomes a very uninteresting problem based on whether we are dealing with Evil Monty who only offers the trade when it's a bad one (stay wins 100% of the time), Friendly Monty who only offers the trade when it's a good one (switch wins 100% of the time), or somewhere in the middle. It has no analytical answer. So for this to be a solvable problem at all we must assume we are dealing with Fair Monty who offers the trade all the time, or at least, offers it at random times not based on the contestant's initial pick.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#66
post #39

The intuitive way for me to understand the Monte Hall problem is to pretended there are 1000 doors. You pick 1. There’s a 1 in 1000 chance you get it right. The host then opens 998 doors that don’t have the prize. Do you keep your original or do you switch? Are the odds 50:50?

Your formulation is once again ambiguous. Instead of clearly stating that Monty had to open 998 empty doors, you state that he did that. Which could mean he happened to do that.

Had to vs happened to makes a big difference.

Had he opened them at random and by (extremely small) chance they happened to be empty, the odds are quite different.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#67
post #39

The intuitive way for me to understand the Monte Hall problem is to pretended there are 1000 doors. You pick 1. There’s a 1 in 1000 chance you get it right. The host then opens 998 doors that don’t have the prize. Do you keep your original or do you switch? Are the odds 50:50?

TFA also presents this intuitive argument.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#68

I swear this problem only ever causes confusion because the original wording is ambiguous about what the host's motivations are. Once you realize the host is trying to get you to lose and knows what's behind each door and must open a door, then it's clearer that you should switch.

The host’s motives don’t matter at all. If the first choice is a goat, then the host does not have any choice about the door to open, so their intent is irrelevant. If the first choice is a goat, then the outcome is the same regardless of the door the host chooses.

The host does not really have any agency here.

The rules are intended to confuse people and trick them into thinking both remaining doors have the same probability. I can see how this would favour the house on average because once people committed and chose a door, they are invested and would tend not to change their mind. But the host’s actions have no effect. And even then, this might be an intuition, but does not provide any understanding as to what exactly happens.

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#69
post #5

Am I the only person who wonders how "Marilyn Vos Savant" also happens to be the smartest person? If you didn't notice, "Savant" means smart. So is it just a coincidence? Karma? The pressure of carrying such a name drove her to smartness?

She said this:.

Marva Watkins in Chicago, Illinois, writes: What is your real last name?

Marilyn responds: It's "vos Savant," which was my mother's maiden name and is my own legal name. (My mother's maiden name is just as real as my father's boyhood name.) My maternal grandfather was Giuseppe vos Savant. Coincidentally, he married a woman named Maria Savant, my maternal grandmother. Growing up, I never thought about "Savant" being a word, too. I'm sure that people with the name "Miller" don't think about it, either! By the way, my mother changed her surname to my father's surname when she got married, which was traditional at the time. I use her name, and my brother uses his name.

https://parade.com/418148/marilynvossavant/marilyns-surname/

Re: Marilyn vos Savant and the Monty Hall Problem (2015)

#70
post #39

The intuitive way for me to understand the Monte Hall problem is to pretended there are 1000 doors. You pick 1. There’s a 1 in 1000 chance you get it right. The host then opens 998 doors that don’t have the prize. Do you keep your original or do you switch? Are the odds 50:50?

But this is wrong. The odds become 2/3 in the original problem, not 50:50. Your "intuition" isn't helping you.
Post reply on HN