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Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

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Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#171

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

Throw494955 wrote: post #145
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #137

> Since then, North Koreans have been sent to Russia, Poland, Qatar, Uruguay, and Mali. Poland? Poland is a EU member country, is it legal to employ North Korean slaves in the EU? Update: Found the following link https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2017-00624... Some Christel Schaldemose was asking the European Parliament the same question back in 2017, but I didn't see an answer.

People send to EU are not some slaves, but highly loyal party members.

> People send to EU are not some slaves, but highly loyal party members.

Mr Troll, be careful with your karma: you can always wake up in some workers paradise, but be careful not to wake up on the wrong side of the barbed wire fence...

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#172

Post by fhackenberger »

jojobas wrote: post #18
lobochrome wrote: post #9

"Why we fight" Even with all the problems in the West, with all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies, never forget that the alternative, in almost all instances, is pure terror.

>all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies That's a weird way to spell "the most prosperous time/space ever, where borderline poor people live like kings 200 years ago, and there are fewer and fewer poor people as time goes on and poverty threshold goes up".

Even if that were true, who paid for all this? It's mother nature, who's in such a bad shape that we'll soon start paying the price for it again and all the workers that this system has and still is exploiting in other countries (directly through bad working conditions/unfair pay or indirectly through pollution where they live). Please look up 'capitalism externalities' for reference.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#174

Post by eviks »

Sabinus wrote: post #119
jimt1234 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in China years ago, I had a Chinese/local girlfriend whose brother-in-law owned a factory that "manufactured" small mechanical parts, like bolts, screws, springs, wire - stuff like that. She said that all the manufacturing was actually done in North Korea. The "factory" that he owned in China was all for show. He always knew when inspectors were coming, days in advance, and so he'd hire a few locals for…

Pre-warned inspections aren't inspections. The government or investigator should just show up at the door.

Pre-warning is not an issue of your inspector is so incompetent he can't tell a real factory from a fake one

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#175

Post by tivert »

konstmonst wrote: post #102
dimitri_deploys wrote: post #4

Absolutely incredible reporting. The risks taken by the sources both at the factories and within North Korea defy comprehension for anybody lucky enough not to fear that speaking out will endanger their family.

I disagree, removing sanctions will make them stronger when the conflict comes. Also as I see it, all nations don't care much about people's suffering in some other country, they care most about their inner affairs, which is understandable geopolitically. Most of the people also don't care or else they would vote with their money. Are north koreans worth nuclear escalation - I don't think so.

Did you mean to reply to this comment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39507748

Your reply seems out of place.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#176

Post by throwaway290 »

aamoyg wrote: post #170
carlmr wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the idea was that we know that sanctions are circumvented this way, but it puts a tax on all dealings. Russia selling oil to India? It's now part of the world oil market, so decreases demand from India for other nations oil. Effectively they're still selling the same amount of oil, but now they get rupees instead of $, € or ₽. Russia selling wood through Kazakhstan? Well it's the same wood being sold, but K…

They are getting rupees, dirhams, and ammunition for police (7.62 x 39, 9 x 19)

I guess the point is that it costs more for Russia and others this way. Which seems logical

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#177

Post by 0dayz »

xwolfi wrote: post #110
kurthr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but to be fair... you can't call it socialism. NK has been a dictatorship for literally generations. Even SK has only been democratic for a relatively short time. Just because they put democratic or socialist or even communist in their name doesn't make them so.

But have we seen that many people calling themselves socialists not ending up with the same problem ? Socialism doesnt work because it doesnt consider greed as a positive force. Starting from there, every sign of greed is suppressed until remains only an oppressive bureaucracy in charge of hammering any sign of attempt of maybe earning something. Socialism is not evil, it's even benevolent: but it's flawed because it…

>greed is good

And yet the USA have had 2 economic recession due to greed and it was regulation who saved the day.

Capitalism doesn't even thrive under greed, as it incentives any means necessary to get more even if it's illegal.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#178

Post by 93po »

eviks wrote: post #174
Sabinus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-warned inspections aren't inspections. The government or investigator should just show up at the door.

Pre-warning is not an issue of your inspector is so incompetent he can't tell a real factory from a fake one

It’s more likely money passing hands and a very nice dinner out for the inspector who really doesn’t care because he knows actually doing his job won’t make any difference

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#179

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

throwaway290 wrote: post #89
khuey wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m curious how these investigators get all these local managers to give them tours of these plants and be so open like that. Bribes?

Not necessarily, you just pretend to be a buyer.

This. They'll give a tour to someone who wants to do business with them. It's not like it's hard to lie about being a seafood distributor.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#180

Post by frobishercresc »

> Their anonymous responses were transcribed and sent back to me

This doesn't pass the smell test for me, this journalist never directly met or claims to have verified the identity of anyone that they are speaking to, the contacts were provided to them through unspecified "South Korean contacts" (are these contacts independent? not affiliated with SK state sponsored anti-NK propaganda initiatives?).

Of course they shouldn't be explaining who exactly is giving them these testimonies but it makes it very convenient to say 'I got this information from super secret sources, you'll just have to trust me that they are unbiased, forget the fact I am working for a USA based publication'

The single video that is actually shown simply shows the sort of seafood processing factories you see all over the world, nothing that proves anything specific about the accusations. Furthermore, this hasn't been accompanied by any release of the supposed documented evidence (with suitable redactions). I also love the use of handwritten testimonies to visually make the article look like it's backed by evidence, when this is the very evidence which has no established veracity.

I've seen how the USA media love insinuiating things through 'anonymous sources' about Iraq and countless other 'unfriendly' countries to justify devestating military invasions or economic sanctions on foreign countries. All to simply to enrich their own bottom line, keep the US Dollar flowing and keep their stronghold on resource extraction from poorer countries.

For a counter-factual, see this video with interviews with actual NK people living in SK on how NK defectors are treated by SK government, including testimony from a lawyer who has publically worked on defending them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V4Hnl7J9H4&list=LL&index=2

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