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Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

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Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#41

Post by paulhauggis »

iamben wrote: post #26

I have a friend that did this in a summer job about 12 or 13 years ago. Got some temp work doing data entry, did it for 2 days before realising it could be done better. He wrote something in VB and did 15x more than everyone else over the course of a day. They (obviously) thought something was wrong so examined what he'd done. When he explained about the program, they told him if he left the temp firm he was employed…

Why is the employer wrong here? If they were hiring 10 temp workers to do the job of a simple program, they really didn't need them in the first place.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#43

Post by andys627 »

paulhauggis wrote: post #41
iamben wrote: post #26

I have a friend that did this in a summer job about 12 or 13 years ago. Got some temp work doing data entry, did it for 2 days before realising it could be done better. He wrote something in VB and did 15x more than everyone else over the course of a day. They (obviously) thought something was wrong so examined what he'd done. When he explained about the program, they told him if he left the temp firm he was employed…

Why is the employer wrong here? If they were hiring 10 temp workers to do the job of a simple program, they really didn't need them in the first place.

Employer's wrong because they let the intern make a crappy deal for his software... hmm

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#44

Post by rpwilcox »

This is why I'm skeptical about "Results Only Work Environments". (Not that the person in the article has one, but..)

It seems to me that a Results Oriented Work Environment doesn't (or might not) really reward the super performers (just gives them more work to do), while still punishing the poorer performing members of the team.

You: "Boss, can I go home after I finish my daily quota of 200 reports?"

Them: "Well, we're a results only work environment"

You: "Ok, it's 10:30AM and my script just finished 200 reports. Seeya!"

Them: "Wait just a minute..."

Meanwhile, in an alternative reality....

You: "Boss, it's 6PM, I'm still working on my daily quota of 200 reports, but my productivity is starting to suffer and I'm going slowly" (maybe not because you're a slow data entry person, but you were pairing with Bob, helping him with his work at the cost of your own)

Them: "Well, we're a results only work environment"

You: (Sad Yao)

It's possible that I'm wrong here, and would love to hear of other people's experience working under these conditions.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#45

Post by VBprogrammer »

ktizo wrote: post #40

Automating manual systems then requires less employees. Less employees often requires less management. If I had done this, I would not in a million years talk to my immediate management about this. I have already been fired once from contract work for merely suggesting that a similar thing was possible.

Do you regret suggesting it? I mean, sure, there would have been some immediate pain involved in finding a new job but surely that was balanced out by not working in a inefficient toxic working environment.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#46

Post by redthrowaway »

paulhauggis wrote: post #34
pavelkaroukin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His purpose - get as much money as possible here. And get it now, 'cos tomorrow it might not work, since someone can come up with same idea or bonus rules will change or something else.

His naive approach will lead to either him or his entire department getting replaced by a computer.

Which is a good thing. There's no point in having a bunch of people do manually what can be done automatically with greater efficiency and at less cost. Keynesian economics does not apply to individual organizations.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#47

Post by redthrowaway »

patio11 wrote: post #11

You don't have to Flowers for Algernon your own productivity just because other folks working in the same firm, in the same industry, in the same country, whatever haven't caught on that computers are eating the world yet. There's nothing unethical about earning the lion's share of the bonus pool assuming the human-assisted script is, indeed, an acceptable substitute for elbow grease. (There are plausible reasons why…

>You don't have to Flowers for Algernon your own productivity

Are you thinking of Harrison Bergeron?

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#48

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

paulhauggis wrote: post #41
iamben wrote: post #26

I have a friend that did this in a summer job about 12 or 13 years ago. Got some temp work doing data entry, did it for 2 days before realising it could be done better. He wrote something in VB and did 15x more than everyone else over the course of a day. They (obviously) thought something was wrong so examined what he'd done. When he explained about the program, they told him if he left the temp firm he was employed…

Why is the employer wrong here? If they were hiring 10 temp workers to do the job of a simple program, they really didn't need them in the first place.

£2/hour more than a temp data-entry position isn't market compensation for an entry-level programming gig. Converting to US wages, temp workers often make $8-$12/hour -- the temp AGENCY may be making $20-$25 for that, but the worker only pulls in up to $24k/year.

If they'd doubled his salary to ~$48k/year (assuming he previously was earning ~$12/hour) then that starts to be a decent wage for an entry-level programmer. Consider this the bare minimum ethical offer, paying the developer based on minimal market value (instead of taking advantage of his naivete).

But if it was saving them from having to pay 10 temp workers (at $20/hour each, say) and they only paid him for the summer months to perfect the script and (presumably) train a replacement, then they were basically treating him as a consultant, which (reasonably) would have doubled his hourly rate again. Paying him for 3 months at $48/hour should have cost them about $30k, but he ended up saving the company ~$350k/year (assuming they still needed to retain a $50k/year "expert" data-entry/programmer type to use and maintain the script). Since they could see his script was valuable, the least they could have done would have been to pay him a reasonable consulting rate for a few month.

On the other hand, if they'd at least gone with a fair entry-level programmer salary I wouldn't be complaining -- paying someone half of what they're worth seems to be too common to name a company a scumbag over. But yes, the company is well into scumbag territory for taking advantage of someone by paying them 1/4 of the fair market value of their time.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#49

Post by patio11 »

redthrowaway wrote: post #47
patio11 wrote: post #11

You don't have to Flowers for Algernon your own productivity just because other folks working in the same firm, in the same industry, in the same country, whatever haven't caught on that computers are eating the world yet. There's nothing unethical about earning the lion's share of the bonus pool assuming the human-assisted script is, indeed, an acceptable substitute for elbow grease. (There are plausible reasons why…

>You don't have to Flowers for Algernon your own productivity Are you thinking of Harrison Bergeron?

I was indeed! Curses, my memory of middle school is failing me.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#50

Post by starpilot »

feverishaaron wrote: post #12

If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious. Not because he gamed the system and received the bonuses, but because he didn't share his innovation with the rest of the team and improve everyones' efficiency. If he had done that, I would recognize his talent and initiative and promote him, allowing him to do more rewarding, higher-level work.

> If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious.

And this is why you're not management. He hasn't shared it yet, why assume he would not ever? You could show some understanding and realize there are many reasons an employee might be uncomfortable showing a radically advantageous method immediately to management.

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