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Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

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Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#31

Post by SCdF »

feverishaaron wrote: post #12

If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious. Not because he gamed the system and received the bonuses, but because he didn't share his innovation with the rest of the team and improve everyones' efficiency. If he had done that, I would recognize his talent and initiative and promote him, allowing him to do more rewarding, higher-level work.

Absolutely. Maybe office politics works differently in the states (where I presume he's from), but it sounds like he's keeping it quite so he can screw around at work.

If I made a script that deals with 98% of all of my work I could not imagine not sharing that with my bosses. To me (and I'm sure lots of people don't share this sentiment) it would feel morally wrong not to.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#32

Post by SCdF »

feverishaaron wrote: post #12

If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious. Not because he gamed the system and received the bonuses, but because he didn't share his innovation with the rest of the team and improve everyones' efficiency. If he had done that, I would recognize his talent and initiative and promote him, allowing him to do more rewarding, higher-level work.

Absolutely. Maybe office politics works differently in the states (where I presume he's from), but it sounds like he's keeping it quite so he can screw around at work.

If I made a script that deals with 98% of all of my work I could not imagine not sharing that with my bosses. To me (and I'm sure lots of people don't share this sentiment) it would feel morally wrong not to.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#33

Post by hkmurakami »

patio11 wrote: post #11

You don't have to Flowers for Algernon your own productivity just because other folks working in the same firm, in the same industry, in the same country, whatever haven't caught on that computers are eating the world yet. There's nothing unethical about earning the lion's share of the bonus pool assuming the human-assisted script is, indeed, an acceptable substitute for elbow grease. (There are plausible reasons why…

Here is an anecdote: A similar data-entry grunt creates a set of excel macros on his private time at home, then presents his work to his team at a meeting. He surely expected to be met with praise, for saving countless hours of mind-numbing work so that the man-hours could be used on more creative and challenging tasks.

His high hopes for his fellow coworkers and his own future would be dashed though. The employee was branded as a "hacker" (in the Hollywood movie sense), and was ostracized. He eventually developed clinical depression, and resigned from the company.

Where did this happen? The story is probably not unfamiliar to patio11, who lives in the country where this occurred: Japan.

P.S.: I wish I had been a Hacker News reader back when I lived in Nagoya from 2009-2010. It would have been nice to talk to you in person :).

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#34

Post by paulhauggis »

pavelkaroukin wrote: post #8
paulhauggis wrote: post #2

The guy isn't very smart doing 10X the normal amount of transactions. He should limit it to 25% more than everyone, so it at least seems believable.

His purpose - get as much money as possible here. And get it now, 'cos tomorrow it might not work, since someone can come up with same idea or bonus rules will change or something else.

His naive approach will lead to either him or his entire department getting replaced by a computer.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#35

Post by billybob »

ohashi wrote: post #25
staunch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He probably rightly senses that his boss wouldn't feel the way you hope you would. In fact I don't think most people would offer him a rational incentive at all. If he saves the company $1 million a year are you actually going to cut him a $200k+ bonus? I'd be very doubtful of anyone who says they would. Most people would give him $20k if they're especially generous and a pat on the head.

Or he could simply be replacing himself with no reward. Oh, you've automated it? Thanks. Bye.

That's possible, but only if they're stupid. They'd be losing someone who can knows their business and could automate their next manual process.

I'd suggest he say this: "hey boss, I think I can automate this process, increasing accuracy and productivity. Would you give me salary X if I can do it?"

If the boss says "awesome, yes!", then he's got a better job.

If the boss says no or is lukewarm, he could keep doing what he's doing, but actually study programming in the time he's goofing off and start a job search.

Either way, he's on a path to getting to program, not having to hide it, and getting properly compensated.

The more difficult question is: what if they lay off his coworkers because of his innovation? How should he feel then?

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#36

Post by ajross »

feverishaaron wrote: post #12

If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious. Not because he gamed the system and received the bonuses, but because he didn't share his innovation with the rest of the team and improve everyones' efficiency. If he had done that, I would recognize his talent and initiative and promote him, allowing him to do more rewarding, higher-level work.

You realize that his "manager" is probably some kid just out of college, or another career grunt just clocking in the hours, right? This is data entry. There's no rewarding of initiative in that world: not at the bottom nor in the middle. You have to get to low level executives before you start seeing people with an interest in "changing" or "improving" the system.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#37

Post by cluda01 »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #16
ezl wrote: post #3

No, that doesn't make him a scumbag. I don't understand why people post these things though. Are they really looking for validation?

In addition to Artur's point, I would affirm that yes, that is definitely the reason. Every day without fail, there is a post in /r/relationship_advice that goes something like "My fiancee just sold my cat and wired all of my money to her secret boyfriend in Albertville. Am I right to be mad?".

Just stick to programming and other interesting sub-reddits. Avoid politics etc

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#38

Post by underdown »

tbatterii wrote: post #19
feverishaaron wrote: post #12

If I were a member of management, and I found out that he was doing this, I would be furious. Not because he gamed the system and received the bonuses, but because he didn't share his innovation with the rest of the team and improve everyones' efficiency. If he had done that, I would recognize his talent and initiative and promote him, allowing him to do more rewarding, higher-level work.

presumably it is management who nurtured the environment that lead to team members competing against each other for a slice of the bonus. So though management might be furious, they should re-consider they should turn some of that fury on themselves(this never happens).

they should be furious with themselves because one of their employees had a great idea that could lower their costs?

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#39

Post by robryan »

paulhauggis wrote: post #34
pavelkaroukin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His purpose - get as much money as possible here. And get it now, 'cos tomorrow it might not work, since someone can come up with same idea or bonus rules will change or something else.

His naive approach will lead to either him or his entire department getting replaced by a computer.

And with any luck he will then earn a heap more from the company to maintain and improve his program.

Re: Redditor: Am I a scumbag for automating my manual work and making more money?

#40

Post by ktizo »

Automating manual systems then requires less employees.

Less employees often requires less management.

If I had done this, I would not in a million years talk to my immediate management about this. I have already been fired once from contract work for merely suggesting that a similar thing was possible.

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