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Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

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Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#51

Post by ajb »

imperialdrive wrote: post #7

Life is just hard. I don't know how folks managed 50 years ago, 100 years, 500+ years, it was just our ability to keep pushing through the mud, the cold nights, the loneliness, sometimes letting a glimpse of a beautiful day or sparkling night be enough to keep going. Someone told me that life and work and relationships are sometimes just pushing everything you have in a giant deep dark hole in the ground, and every n…

" I don't know how folks managed 50 years ago, 100 years, 500+ years, it was just our ability to keep pushing through the mud, the cold nights, the loneliness, sometimes letting a glimpse of a beautiful day or sparkling night be enough to keep going."

You can get a glimpse of this in Tolkein's "The Monsters and the Critics"[1]: "in a little circle of light about their halls, men with courage as their stay went forward to that battle with the hostile world and the offspring of the dark which ends for all, even the kings and champions, in defeat. "

The idea that courage, or any virtue, will be rewarded - and its (less theologically correct) corollary so that if you are not rewarded, your courage or virtue must be suspect - is a Christian one[2], flowing from the idea that the universe is just. Indomitability, and unyielding will were valorised in earlier times, and given respect even if the only result were defeat. For are not even the gods part of time, doomed to be defeated at its end by the ice giants? "the gods, who are defeated, think that defeat no refutation.". So thought the pagans.

I'm not presenting this as a model for the OP, or anyone else. By all means look for success in a different way! But perhaps the idea that defeat does not invalidate your effort and courage is of some comfort.

[1]https://jenniferjsnow.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/11790039-j...

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#52

Post by johnchristopher »

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #49
johnchristopher wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now life js unfair if you can't afford the latest iPhone. Not once in my life have I heard anybody saying life is unfair because they can't afford an iPhone (or a ps5 or whatever expensive but dispensable good), except from children or teenagers. But I have heard it from people who couldn't find jobs or had to work two jobs to barely make rent and couldn't plan to have children and raise kids. Or from people who co…

Oh I've heard it from adults before. Were they acting like children? Sure. Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought.

> Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought.

Damn Fair Labor Standards Act and that pesky National Child Labor Committee and that man, am I right ?

edit, because it scratches me:

> Sure. Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought.

Don't know which specific past you are referring to but I'd venture to guess that there were far fewer of such inaccessible goods though.

Anyway. I'd rather live in a present where children (and adults ?) think life is unfair because they can't have an iPhone than a present in which children are forced to work in coal mines or plants so their whole family don't die from starvation.

That's not what's wrong with the world today.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#53

Post by geoffpado »

agluszak wrote: post #50
geoffpado wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but strongly identify with a lot of what they’ve said, so, my perspective: > Why do you want so hard to start a business? Why not spend your precious time, money and effort on something else? If what motivates you is willingness to change the world - you can do so by working for a non-profit organization. If you want to earn money - you can be a regular employee. For me it’s agency. I want the freedom to…

Ok, I understand that, but why do you want to have this agency in business specifically? Why the focus on tying your agency to making money?

> Why the focus on tying your agency to making money?

Because other fun hobbies of mine include food and shelter. ;)

Yeah, no, entrepreneurship isn’t necessarily my end goal in life, but I will say it’s been a passion of mine from a young age (even before I knew what “work” really was like). But sure, if I could find some other way to live my life, without a need (or at least a significantly lessened need) to make money to continue to pursue those kinds of passions, I’d take it. I just don’t know what you’re getting at, I guess.

Could I pursue something with more agency outside of work? Yes. But work is such a humongous drain on energy and time that it leaves little of either for doing anything outside of it.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#55

Post by marxisttemp »

godelski wrote: post #26
marxisttemp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that what you are working on will really help free people to work on their passions? Every other efficiency increase has gone to line the pockets of the already-rich. I have lost hope for a brighter world. I can find happiness in my own life, but I find a bitter rage grows in me each day against the owners of the means of production. “We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machin…

> Do you believe that what you are working on will really help free people to work on their passions? Every other efficiency increase has gone to line the pockets of the already-rich. It is actually something I'm really concerned about and have put a lot of thought into. But yes, I do think it will. I don't know how to solve the momentum or "gravitational" problem, or whatever we want to call the fact that having mor…

Much love, I agree completely. I hope we can find a way to bring justice and care back into this world.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#56

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

johnchristopher wrote: post #52
DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I've heard it from adults before. Were they acting like children? Sure. Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought.

> Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought. Damn Fair Labor Standards Act and that pesky National Child Labor Committee and that man, am I right ? edit, because it scratches me: > Sure. Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselv…

Never once did I say that that is what is wrong with the world today.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#57

Post by johnnyanmac »

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #49
johnchristopher wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now life js unfair if you can't afford the latest iPhone. Not once in my life have I heard anybody saying life is unfair because they can't afford an iPhone (or a ps5 or whatever expensive but dispensable good), except from children or teenagers. But I have heard it from people who couldn't find jobs or had to work two jobs to barely make rent and couldn't plan to have children and raise kids. Or from people who co…

Oh I've heard it from adults before. Were they acting like children? Sure. Even so, in the past, children were working pretty hard themselves to try to eek out an existence with their parents and the concept of life being unfair because you couldn't have a device wasn't even a thought.

I mean, spoiled people are spoiled no matter what year. It's not the best representation of an entire population.

I think it's more about how the current generation can't afford a lot of what the previous one had or even took for granted. Housing, education, the process of procurring a career; a few things that changed so radically that it creates a generational divide among contemporaries.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#58

Post by johnnyanmac »

agluszak wrote: post #50
geoffpado wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but strongly identify with a lot of what they’ve said, so, my perspective: > Why do you want so hard to start a business? Why not spend your precious time, money and effort on something else? If what motivates you is willingness to change the world - you can do so by working for a non-profit organization. If you want to earn money - you can be a regular employee. For me it’s agency. I want the freedom to…

Ok, I understand that, but why do you want to have this agency in business specifically? Why the focus on tying your agency to making money?

>why do you want to have this agency in business specifically?

Is there any way to succeed financially without being bound to corporate, and not have a business in some way? Be it gig economy, consulting, independent creation, or a traditional brick and mortar establishment, you at the end of the day have a brand/image to sell to customers that you want money from. It all comes down to business.

The only alternative is to be a stay at home parent, but that's becoming less and less an option in this day and age.

>Why the focus on tying your agency to making money?

Money is power, and power can lead to freedom. If many of us had 10m dollars tomorrow we'd probably take a very different approach to the next few decades of life.

Money isn't the end goal, just the (literal) currency to establishing the end goal people actually desire.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#59

Post by AviationAtom »

Watch a series called American Dynasty. Many of the most successful people in history because so, in part, because a stroke of luck. They had many setbacks before they caught their break, but it was ultimately luck that allowed their venture to take flight. Had they given up sooner we likely would have never known who they were.

Re: Ask HN: How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

#60

Post by godelski »

marxisttemp wrote: post #55
godelski wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you believe that what you are working on will really help free people to work on their passions? Every other efficiency increase has gone to line the pockets of the already-rich. It is actually something I'm really concerned about and have put a lot of thought into. But yes, I do think it will. I don't know how to solve the momentum or "gravitational" problem, or whatever we want to call the fact that having mor…

Much love, I agree completely. I hope we can find a way to bring justice and care back into this world.

Fwiw, I think things are coupled. The more we free people the more power we give them to free others. I think this is part of why we continue to progress. But don't lose track of the overall trend while trying to fix the local "noise."
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