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Microsoft is driving users away

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Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#191

Post by makeitdouble »

overgard wrote: post #73
nickelpro wrote: post #15

This is basically an article by a guy angry that the UI for printers changed and predicting the end of the Windows empire based on that.

Every Windows user I know hates the new control panels. (I use plural because they've been trying to replace the actual good control panel basically every version of Windows since 7 and it's an incredible mess). Enterprise users put up with Windows because it's better to administrate than anything else, so taking away that stuff really is murdering windows.

TBF I don't think there's any control panels people are in love with.

Apart from the issue of needing control panels mostly to solve problems, they're just not great.

Windows legendarily keeps multiple versions of them, while for ios/macos it's a game of finding which image is actually a clickable button or understanding that wi-fi hotspot is under sharing and not networks. The FA was about command line incantation to fix printers and of course at every new macos version there will be a set of new defaults to get back behaviors. I think that's just the way of life at this point.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#192

Post by deviantbit »

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

I was at Microsoft, leaving around the same time, but I was in the Game Studios.

How about making the installation about 90% less and dropping DCOM support. That is a dinosaur that has long out lived its usefulness. It is a constant source of security problems. DirectX needs a massive overhaul.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#193

Post by hackerlight »

nickelpro wrote: post #125
overgard wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, with Steam on linux and most of the major game engines making porting easy (or at least moving in that direction) I have very few reasons to stick with Windows anymore. At this point it's basically Photoshop and Fusion 360, otherwise I'd abandon it completely. If they lose gamers, I think they'll have a real issue.

You're a power user unable to understand the needs of non-power users. We all go through that stage, it's natural. I once installed Linux on all my siblings' desktops because I had convinced my parents it would lead to "less viruses" (Fedora 13, I think, GNOME 2, those were the days). The nightmare of providing support for that over the rest of my high school years provided me with a powerful and important lesson. Yo…

How was the old school control panel not better for non power users? Everything in one compact and intuitive display with understandable icons and a description of the icon in the English language. I'm confused when I try to change or navigate settings in Windows 10 or in modern apps in general where there's an array of icons with no description. I can memorize what the hamburger means but beyond that is too much!

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#194

Post by npteljes »

This is just sensationalist. Microsoft doesn't have their users by the users choosing Windows from a lineup of software. People use Windows, because that's the de facto PC operating system. It's what people learn in school, use in governments, use to conduct their businesses, play their games on. PC hardware is made for Windows, and PCs are bundled with Windows. That's why Windows is everywhere.

Not because it's relationship with users, but because of its relationships with the avenues leading to users.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#195

Post by hypothesis »

wl wrote: post #101
hypothesis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CONSTANTLY resetting my user preferences every update (like shoving new buttons [see: ads] onto my taskbar) ultimately lead me to buying the first m1 mbp as my new personal machine. Boy are you going to be disappointed when you discover that settings reset quite aggressively, especially in cases where Apple really thinks it knows better. Want to keep bluetooth off? Both iPhone and macs will not abide. Want to keep…

A warning for anyone who is using local keychain: Don't. Either give in to iCloud keychain or use a different secrets manager. If you're using a Mac with a T1 or T2 security coprocessor or Apple Silicon, your local keychain can only be decrypted with a key stored in those chips. Your backups are useless. I figured this out the hard way when an Apple depot repair for a failed display flex somehow ended up with my logi…

A fair warning, but I similarly lost a secret after transferring to a new iPhone, even while using 3rd party password manager. Said manager likely used secure enclave and thus failed to work on new phone. Failure was very quiet, not even an error or anything, it just stopped generating codes.

I was able to restore it through external means, but this reinforced “have a non-proprietary backups” for me.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#196

Post by amluto »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #104
Animats wrote: post #40

"To Access the old devices and printer use the run prompt and type the following: shell:::{A8A91A66-3A7D-4424-8D24-04E180695C7A}" And people complain about Linux.

That's something I've noticed over the years. More and more of Windows debugging and configuration is happening on the (various) command line terminals. You're even starting to see it with official Microsoft installers.

It has tiers these days. You might need the new settings thingy (is it still called a “charm”? I hope not) or the control panel or MSC (which you might need to start from Win+R or the command line) or actually the command line. There seems to be no a priori way to figure out where a seething is.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#197

Post by makeitdouble »

rodolphoarruda wrote: post #5

I used Ubuntu on my laptops from 2008 to 2023. Last year I switched to Windows 10. Looking at what's going on, I believe I'll be back to Ubuntu in my next laptop. Cycles...

I'm curious if you'd get a working Ubuntu install in WSL2 for all your "serious" need and rely on Windows mostly for the more mundane bits.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#198

Post by overgard »

nickelpro wrote: post #186
overgard wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing though, the desktop now really is about power users or corporate users, because everyone else just uses cell phones or tablets. So ok, sure, your sales people and your secretaries probably aren't going to care about the control panel, but people that use computers outside of work are mostly going to be power users and they're starting to have options. (I can use all the software I need on macOS, and…

As explained above this is irrelevant to enterprise users, corpo installs don't play with per-station configuration like this or care about consumer-facing UIs, the needs of that market revolve around things like image management, deployment, and active directory administration. You're right that the home market is shrinking though, the OEM install market is down billions in revenue and has been dropping by double di…

I think you're overestimating the importance of the revenue generated and underestimating the importance of mindshare and people caring about their system. If the next generation of creators (IE, coders, designers, etc.) grow up on macOS and linux then Microsoft has a real problem down the line. The Windows monopoly has been VERY good to them, they would be foolish to lose it by angering their most passionate users even if in the short term they don't see an effect on their bottom line.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#199

Post by npteljes »

zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

People won't change, because people don't use their PC for the OS. This is why it's important to have systems that bundle Linux, for example, with the UX worked out as much as possible, like how it is on the Steam Deck.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#200

Post by overgard »

makeitdouble wrote: post #191
overgard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Windows user I know hates the new control panels. (I use plural because they've been trying to replace the actual good control panel basically every version of Windows since 7 and it's an incredible mess). Enterprise users put up with Windows because it's better to administrate than anything else, so taking away that stuff really is murdering windows.

TBF I don't think there's any control panels people are in love with. Apart from the issue of needing control panels mostly to solve problems, they're just not great. Windows legendarily keeps multiple versions of them, while for ios/macos it's a game of finding which image is actually a clickable button or understanding that wi-fi hotspot is under sharing and not networks. The FA was about command line incantation t…

Sure, but here's the thing, all they really have to do is... nothing. Just leave the old control panel alone and stop making new ones. Make small evolutions, not redesigns. It might not have been brilliant, but once people learned where things were there's very little upside to changing it and all sorts of downside.
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