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Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

arxiv.org

291–300 of 491 posts

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In real world conversations, people are constantly saying "I don't know"; but that doesn't really happen online. If you're on reddit or stack overflow or hacker news and you see a question you don't know the answer to, you normally just don't say anything. If LLMs are being trained on conversations pulled from the internet then they're missing out on a ton of uncertain responses. Maybe LLMs don't truly "understand" q…

If they were trained on more uncertain content, what happens if the most probable answer to a question is "I don't know", even though an answer exists in it's training set? Suppose 99.3% of answers to 'What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?" are "I don't know that." and the remainder are "11 m/s". What would the model answer? When the LLM answers "I don't know.", this could be a hallucination just as ea…

Right, but "I don't know" is a pretty safe hallucination (if it is one).

My main worry about hallucinations is it means I absolutely can't rely on the output for anything important. If I ask what the safe dose for Tylenol for an infant is, the answer needs to be either correct or "I don't know". It's not acceptable for it to hallucinate 10x the safe dose.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#292
post #13

I have to admit that I only read the abstract, but I am generally skeptical whether such a highly formal approach can help us answer the practical question of whether we can get LLMs to answer 'I don't know' more often (which I'd argue would solve hallucinations). It sounds a bit like an incompleteness theorem (which in practice also doesn't mean that math research is futile) - yeah, LLMs may not be able to compute s…

I also wonder if having a hallucination-free LLM is even required for it to be useful. Humans can and will hallucinate (by this I mean make false statements in full confidence, not drugs or mental states) and they’re entrusted with all sorts of responsibilities. Humans are also susceptible to illusions and misdirection just like LLMs. So in all likelihood there is simply some state of ‘good enough’ that is satisfacto…

Tools are not people and people should not be considered as tools. Imagine your hammer only hitting the nail 60% of the time! But workers should be allowed to stop working to negotiate work conditions.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#293
post #266

Fiction and story writing is hallucination. It is the opposite of a stochastic parrot. We've achieved both extremes of AI. Computers can be both logical machines and hallucinators. Our goal is to create a machine that can be both at the same time and can differentiate between both. That's the key. Hallucination is important but the key is for the computer to be self aware about when it's hallucinating. Of course it's…

> Just look at religion. This is bit off-topic but what I see as one of driving force behind existence of religions is need for personification. It seems easier for human to interact with the world and its elements by communicating with it as it was familiar parson-like entity. Now when we talk about LLMs and AI in general, there is often personification as well.

LLMs are trained to actually imitate human understanding deliberately. The data is human and the high level training is defined as the most likely word prediction of human output data.

So not surprising to find aspects of personification in the LLM. It is trained on US.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#294

Fiction and story writing is hallucination. It is the opposite of a stochastic parrot. We've achieved both extremes of AI. Computers can be both logical machines and hallucinators. Our goal is to create a machine that can be both at the same time and can differentiate between both. That's the key. Hallucination is important but the key is for the computer to be self aware about when it's hallucinating. Of course it's…

> even humans hallucinate massively Simpler example: Dreams.

Yeah good point. But dreams are easily distinguishable from reality.

Religion is often indistinguishable from truth and reality to those who hallucinate it.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#295

Fiction and story writing is hallucination. It is the opposite of a stochastic parrot. We've achieved both extremes of AI. Computers can be both logical machines and hallucinators. Our goal is to create a machine that can be both at the same time and can differentiate between both. That's the key. Hallucination is important but the key is for the computer to be self aware about when it's hallucinating. Of course it's…

> even humans hallucinate massively Simpler example: Dreams.

Most humans are extremely aware of the difference between dreams and reality. If LLMs had similar awareness when they hallucinated there wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#296
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a complex pattern-fitting supercomputer hovering over a massive table of precomputed patterns That was perhaps true of earlier and smaller LLMs, like GPT-1 and GPT-2. But as they grew larger and were trained with more and more data, they changed from pure pattern matching to implementing algorithms to compress more information into their structure than pure pattern matching can achieve. These algorithms are incompl…

> It will happily execute this algorithm. For large numbers, it is slightly off on the arithmetic. When I asked it to double check, it did so using Python code. After that, it kept using Python code to perform the math. It was also able to reason intelligently about different outcomes if always picking a (or b) given different starting points. Notice that you had to notice the error and had to prompt it to double che…

> Notice that you had to notice the error and had to prompt it to double check. Lots of complicated things going on here. Many (most?) humans will fail somewhere along this trajectory.

Sure. This was covered by my statement above: "These algorithms are incomplete and buggy".

> “It was able to reason intelligently” imbues qualities that I am skeptical is reasonable to attribute to this very narrow domain - what’s an example where it showed intelligent reasoning capabilities?

Here's an example. I asked it to analyze the case where we always pick option "b" in my example above. It took my word problem and boiled it down to an equation:

  ChatGPT: To find the threshold where the behavior switches from decreasing to increasing when always choosing option "b", we need to identify the smallest integer starting value that, after being doubled and reduced by 40, leads to an equal or larger integer in the next iteration. We're looking for the smallest integer x where 2x - 40 >= x 
This was part of a longer conversation where it analyzed different properties and outcomes of the "game rules" that I gave it.

As you pointed out, it got some things wrong and had to be corrected. But Socratic reasoning works fairly well to guide it. It can find errors in its own reasoning. For instance, if asked to actually calculate a few iterations for a given case, it will find its own errors in its claims about that case.

Is it useful right now? Maybe, maybe not, depends on your use case. It definitely takes a lot of thinking on your own and guiding it. At some points it goes from seemingly intelligent to downright pigheaded and stupid.

But in my view there is absolutely no way a lookup table algorithm can contain enough data to be anywhere near the level of responses we're seeing here.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#297

I feel the same way about information provided by LLMs as with lots of pre-LLM articles and overall YouTube 'information' videos. Sources matter. You're either rehashing information from a collection of sources or you have your own data to prove your statements.

Yeah, this is why I really like Kagi's approach: it's clearly marked for what is, and cites its sources so you can verify the quality of the answer (or at least get a ballpark idea of where it's coming from) yourself.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#298
post #13

I have to admit that I only read the abstract, but I am generally skeptical whether such a highly formal approach can help us answer the practical question of whether we can get LLMs to answer 'I don't know' more often (which I'd argue would solve hallucinations). It sounds a bit like an incompleteness theorem (which in practice also doesn't mean that math research is futile) - yeah, LLMs may not be able to compute s…

Transformers have no capacity for self reflection, for reasoning about their reasoning process, they don't "know" that they don't know. My interpretation of the paper is that it claims this weakness if fundamental, you can train the network to act as if it knows its knowledge limits, but there will always be an impossible to cover gap for any real world implementation.

> you can train the network to act as if it knows its knowledge limits

Humans need more training to do the same.

And this does not answer the question of whether there's self-reflection going on. Practical LLMs available today are perfectly capable of telling you about their own reasoning process.

And much like a human, an LLM is incapable of fully explaining it's reasoning process from first principles to a human. Why is that? Probably because humans are too limited to grok large scale complex processes like the human brain or an LLM.

Finally, there is no difference between acting as if you know your training limits and knowing your training limits, if your acting is good enough. This goes for both humans and LLMs.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#299
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to reduce hallucinations in both humans and LLMs is to increase their general intelligence and their knowledge of the world.

It's statistical prediction. LLMs do not "understand" the world by definition. Ask an image generator to make "an image of a woman sitting on a bus and reading a book". Images will be either a horror show or at best full of weird details that do not match the real world - because it's not how any of this works. It's a glorified auto-complete that only works due to the massive amounts of data it is trained on. Throw i…

Why do people say stuff like this that is so demonstrably untrue? SD and GPT4 do not exhibit the behavior described above and they're not even new.

Re: Hallucination is inevitable: An innate limitation of large language models

#300
This is sort of like the compression algorithm "problem." For the overwhelming majority of inputs, compression algorithms don't compress, and it can be proven that on average they don't work. But we're not really interested in compressing things on average. What we use compression for amounts to edge cases of highly regularized or repeatable data.

Thus the fact that LLMs can be proven in general to hallucinate doesn't necessarily imply that they must hallucinate in the types of situations for which we use them for. The paper itself discusses a number of mitigating strategies -- such as supplementing their training data with current information or using multiple LLMs to vote on the accuracy of the outcome -- only to basically brush them aside and advise not to use LLMs in any sort of critical situation. And that's probably true enough today, but in the future I think these strategies will greatly reduce the severity of these hallucinations. Just as we as human beings have developed strategies to reduce our reliance on pure memory.

This reminds me of a deposition I had to give a number of years back. One of the lawyers asked me if I remembered how the plaintiff and I came to discuss a certain accusation leveled at him by the defendant. And I confidently stated, "Sure, he and I used to have various conversations about the issue and one day he the plaintiff brought up this thing that defendant said to him." And the lawyer says, if you want to, you can refer to your phone text log to refresh your memory. Then I looked at my phone, and the truth was that I myself had spoken to the defendant, and she told me the accusation, and then I went and shared it with the plaintiff. So, I basically remembered the situation exactly backwards, i.e., a hallucination, which I was able to repair by referring to real world information instead of just my memory.

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