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Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

pudding.cool

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Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#111

Post by cooper_ganglia »

mtrower wrote: post #41
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anthem uncoupled from what it stands for may seem strange, which is why it’s so important to remember the lives of the fathers, brothers, and sons sacrificed at Fort McHenry holding up the flag through the night, and all the lives lost since then holding up the foundations of freedom and our way of life. If you’re living in America enjoying the (ever shrinking) bounty of liberties we have, it’s good and healthy f…

That may be true, and it may be of personal value to pursue this for yourself. That's different from socially badgering others into it at group events.

I very, very strongly disagree. If you hate the country you reside in so much, don’t show up to those events, or better yet, purchase a ticket to go live somewhere else that better suits you. I don’t have even the slightest bit of tolerance for that kind of apathetic, the-world-revolves-around-me attitude.

Sons had their legs blown off so you could be free to whine on an online forum about having to honor them for 60-seconds at sporting events you have the freedom to attend. Truly astounding.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#112

Post by jvanderbot »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #104
jvanderbot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't always stand. This is silly. I can't say you shouldn't feel your feelings and you can't say I should. Cheers!

It's pretty easy to prove there is pressure to stand, see Colin Kaepernick where not standing probably cost him his job.

This discussion has inflated scope from "I don't like attending events because it's weird we're required to say a hymn or pledge" stated by one person.

With response "well you don't have to say or sing - I don't"

All the way to arguing over whether I really feel social pressure and how Colin Capernick has to stand so obviously I'm wrong.

We're really deep in the weeds looking for a technicality to nitpic my original statement, don't you think?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#113

Post by steezy13 »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #111
mtrower wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, and it may be of personal value to pursue this for yourself. That's different from socially badgering others into it at group events.

I very, very strongly disagree. If you hate the country you reside in so much, don’t show up to those events, or better yet, purchase a ticket to go live somewhere else that better suits you. I don’t have even the slightest bit of tolerance for that kind of apathetic, the-world-revolves-around-me attitude. Sons had their legs blown off so you could be free to whine on an online forum about having to honor them for 60…

Not following pathological nationalism isn't the same as "hating your country". Saying otherwise is just propagating a false dichotomy.

We can be thankful to live in this country without needing to force others to do so as well. In fact, to borrow from your earlier point, we actually have the freedom to hold a different opinion about nationalism/patriotism, unlike many oppressive countries.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#114

Post by boomboomsubban »

jvanderbot wrote: post #112
boomboomsubban wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy to prove there is pressure to stand, see Colin Kaepernick where not standing probably cost him his job.

This discussion has inflated scope from "I don't like attending events because it's weird we're required to say a hymn or pledge" stated by one person. With response "well you don't have to say or sing - I don't" All the way to arguing over whether I really feel social pressure and how Colin Capernick has to stand so obviously I'm wrong. We're really deep in the weeds looking for a technicality to nitpic my original…

Your original statement was "I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever." Maybe you meant that in some limited range, but it's hardly nitpicking to think you meant there was no pressure whatsoever.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#115

Post by jvanderbot »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #114
jvanderbot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion has inflated scope from "I don't like attending events because it's weird we're required to say a hymn or pledge" stated by one person. With response "well you don't have to say or sing - I don't" All the way to arguing over whether I really feel social pressure and how Colin Capernick has to stand so obviously I'm wrong. We're really deep in the weeds looking for a technicality to nitpic my original…

Your original statement was "I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever." Maybe you meant that in some limited range, but it's hardly nitpicking to think you meant there was no pressure whatsoever.

I see. Removing that would make my post truer to it's original intent. Shame the edit window has passed.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#116

Post by boomboomsubban »

jvanderbot wrote: post #115
boomboomsubban wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original statement was "I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever." Maybe you meant that in some limited range, but it's hardly nitpicking to think you meant there was no pressure whatsoever.

I see. Removing that would make my post truer to it's original intent. Shame the edit window has passed.

If your entire point was that you don't have to sing along, sure. I don't think it's even encouraged in many performances. I had a friend who liked to but always did it under his breath to not disrupt things.

I took the original post to be criticizing forced participation in the ritual.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#117

Post by dgfitz »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #108
dgfitz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be exhausting to constantly filter the world through the lens of political beliefs.

I could say the same to you, though I struggle to think why you think my political beliefs have warped my understanding of the War of 1812.

Why did you bring up Florida?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#118

Post by boomboomsubban »

dgfitz wrote: post #117
boomboomsubban wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could say the same to you, though I struggle to think why you think my political beliefs have warped my understanding of the War of 1812.

Why did you bring up Florida?

Because it's territory we gained in the War of 1812.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#119

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #82
dylan604 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was shoehorned in. The founding fathers very much did not want the government to be dictated to by religion. They also very much wanted people to be able to practice which ever religion they wanted. This is why there is the concept of separation of church and state with the establishment clause. The pledge itself wasn't even around until the Civil War, and was worded differently than what is used today. There'…

Actually, it’s the “separation of church and state” that’s more analogous to the civil war memorials being a 20th century creation. “Separation of church and state” isn’t in the Constitution. It was something Jefferson said, but he was not representative of the founding fathers on that point. John Adams, by contrast, said: “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to th…

It sounds like you’re perfectly fine with secularism being removed from Bangladesh then.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#120

Post by GiorgioG »

dylan604 wrote: post #59
GiorgioG wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it bothers you so much don’t go to these events.

Someone's not allowed to go to a sporting event because you say so? That's a load of crap. I'll go to whatever event I want. If they have one of these dear leader performances, I just stand there thinking about whatever is on my mind. If you like it, you can sing your little heart out. But I'm not going to not go to something I enjoy because you might get offended at my non-participation in your cult-like ritual

I never said you weren’t allowed. I said if it bothers you so much you can choose not to attend.

My father in law stopped watching sports during the period where it became popular to kneel or not stand during the national anthem to protest or bring to light various social causes. In his view, those things don’t belong in sports. That was his choice, it’s not mine, but he didn’t make a big stink about it, he just chose to stop consuming that form of entertainment.

At some point you either conform, choose not to conform and deal with the consequences, or simply avoid these events. The rest of the populace doesn’t have to change their behavior just because you don’t like it.

Collectively we have become a society of intolerant crybabies. We don’t have to agree with everyone, but we do have to tolerate the common social norms unless we want to be that guy that gets unwanted attention.

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