Live data from Hacker News

Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

maartenboudry.be

51–60 of 136 posts

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#51
post #5

"The more people there are, the more solutions to problems will be found." Has not been true so far, I wonder at what population amount, will this start working ?

It might start working when we take away their screens, 24/7 couch-based entertainment, and their safe spaces to escape the violence of being misgendered.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#52
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of my acquaintances simply cannot afford the costs of multiple children. I can't speak for your friends. But I think that when someone says "can't afford" what they really mean is "I'd rather spend that money on something else". Some people literally can't afford children. But those in the middle class (or better) in the US certainly can . It would just take money away from other parts of their lifestyle: the…

> I think that when someone says "can't afford" what they really mean is "I'd rather spend that money on something else". No, what many of us mean is that "We can't afford to give a child the kind of support and resources and opportunities that a responsible parent knows it is their job to provide." Many of us grew up poor, and saw people around us who didn't make it out. Many of them are still poor bordering on dest…

Yes, this is the spirit of what I mean. For many it is wanting to guarantee some level of comfort and support for the kids long term AND have plans to not be a burden yourself financially.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#53

> Forget About Overpopulation, Soon There Will Be Too Few Humans This can be easily and summarily dismissed if you know anything about minimum population numbers. Humans will never, through simple declining birth rates, reach the low-or-sub-1000s numbers that would result in there being too few humans to maintain genetic diversity. https://www.livescience.com/minimum-people-to-survive-apocal... > how many people woul…

Other than genetic minimum population numbers, there should be civilization minimum population numbers, and I'd suspect modern technology would allow for a few hundred(?) million people to hold up the same standard of living and progress.

Barring an apocalyptic scenario, Earth is never going to see populations dip back below 2 billion, and honestly probably never even below 5. It's not even declining now, it's just [growing YoY at 0.8% instead of 1.2%](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-populat...). That's the "decline".

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#54
post #6

I had a long conversation with an anthropologist so studied the emergence of agriculture, who argued that it wasn't invented but instead adopted by necessity. He pointed out the huge host of health problems that came with agriculture: hard labor; poor quality food; diseases from living densely. Life expectancy dropped from the adoption of agriculture until well into the industrial revolution, with the adoption of pub…

> Life expectancy dropped from the adoption of agriculture based on what data exactly?

I do not remember now links, but the study of the human remains from the early Neolithic societies has shown that they had become much smaller and much sicker than their ancestors.

This is as expected, because they had switched from a diet where the main sources of proteins and fat were of animal origin to one where the main sources of proteins and fat were plant seeds.

They did not have our modern knowledge about essential nutrients, so at least in the beginning they had not been able to choose a balanced diet.

It appears that they have eventually accumulated enough experience to improve their food habits (after some centuries). Since the beginnings of agriculture, the cereals have always been the cheapest source of food, but in time it has been learned that they are not enough so they have been then combined with legumes (e.g. lentils, peas and faba beans) and with oily seeds rich in essential fatty acids (e.g. flax seeds).

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#55

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

While I can understand that they would find this upsetting, how long ago did their ancestors leave ? Are you sure that this doesn't stem from them having been used to self-identify as (American-)Croatian, but which hardly corresponds to the evolution of Croatians since then ? Their assimilation might be even harder than for some other immigrants without Croatian ancestry, if they feel like they might be "owed" something ? (And that's not even starting with other potential issues, like being of a different class...)

Typically, first generation immigrants rarely fully assimilate (unless immigrating very young of course), it's their kids that will.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#56

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

There are always groups. Even when your country is one race. The difference is just it will be eating their own people instead of having an 'other'.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#57
Too many humans or too few. Why can't it be both?

My loose understanding is that modern humanity is a pyramid scheme where we always need more young workers to support fewer retirees - not enough people.

Meanwhile we're consuming resources faster than they can be replenished [1] - too many people.

Without data to back this up, I suspect India, China and Africa are going to start consuming more resources (behaving more like the US) faster than the US (and the rest of the west) is going to cut back consumption, even accounting for shrinking birthrates.

So on balance, I'm still more worried about the 'too many people' case.

[1] https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/country-over...

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#59
post #48

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

> if you believe that people are perfectly fungible and that an Indonesian man will become accepted as Japanese This is never going to happen going from the firsthand accounts I have heard from non-ethnically Japanese people who are by all accounts Japanese. As in born and raised in Japan, Japanese as first language, Japanese culture, norms etc. Japanese society is simply too racist or xenophobic at its core. If you…

There are, quite literally, third and fourth-generation Korean-Japanese people who are still not considered fully Japanese.

The most famous example is probably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Akiyama

This guy is a fourth-generation Korean-Japanese athlete, but was still never considered Japanese by the Japanese fanbase, he was frequently booed and heckled, and he went on to compete under the S.Korean flag. And this guy's father and grandfather were born in Japan, and he looks ethnically indistinguishable from the Japanese.

It's pure fantasy that second-generation Indonesians or Filipinos are going to integrate into Japanese society. It's going to be extremely painful, if it's attempted.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#60
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Population is separate to climate change.

They are still talking about it in both articles on the frontpage including this shitty one. wtf is wrong with you all telling me to read the article without reading it yourself?

They mention climate change, the article isn't about climate change. There is nothing in there about population control. I think you read the first paragraph, got outraged and commented angrily.
Post reply on HN