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Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

maartenboudry.be

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Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#41

Post by jug »

Alright. So the tldr of this article is that the more we are, the more we can commit to research in eg shrinking agriculture area per capita, which will be less hard on Earth. That we need a large population because it's cross discipline research and besides... More Researchers, right?

The author simply assumes we still have much to do there so the argument heavily hinges on that assumption.

The author makes no effort to counter this with the innate ease on Earth by simply being less people around? Surely, this factor may or may not be even more powerful than optimizing agriculture further than where we already are in a very advanced society.

Or did I miss something? If I didn't, this article is biased.

Besides, isn't there a risk that research made us more harmful for Earth? He points to reduced agricultural footprints but the cost for this has been monocultures that damage Earth and require use of antibiotics which damage Earth (humans included).

So I don't think more research innately lends to a healthier planet either.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#42

Post by philips »

timmg wrote: post #22
philips wrote: post #4

The article is heavy on criticism of population decline and light on an argument of why it is so bad. As a parent in the USA I also don’t buy the argument that it is all education and birth control driving these changes. Many of my acquaintances simply cannot afford the costs of multiple children. And for others climate anxiety makes them question the future.

> Many of my acquaintances simply cannot afford the costs of multiple children. I can't speak for your friends. But I think that when someone says "can't afford" what they really mean is "I'd rather spend that money on something else". Some people literally can't afford children. But those in the middle class (or better) in the US certainly can . It would just take money away from other parts of their lifestyle: the…

Perhaps your argument is correct. And my use of afford is unjustified.

However, if parents have a certain lifestyle they want to make possible for their children like: paying for daycare/aftercare so your spouse can keep their career, helping pay for college, having sufficient retirement to not burden them, etc the costs are clearly becoming untenable for middle class families.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#44

Post by sitkack »

bamboozled wrote: post #24
Zetobal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, maybe not all of the article but it still is. Pro life ass propaganda without scientific merit.

Population is separate to climate change.

Given your submission history of climate articles, you are going to argue that neither has a direct affect on the other?

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#45

Post by CrzyLngPwd »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #25

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

Totallly fine for a Ukrainian woman to become Miss Japan: https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/ukrainian-born-miss-japan-...

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#46

Post by palmfacehn »

asadotzler wrote: post #18

This article is brainless and attempts to make no argument other than "The more people there are, the more solutions to problems will be found" which hasn't happened yet despite massive population growth over the last 75 years. This kind of low quality content seems pervasive here lately. I can only presume it's the result of a generally lower quality of participant here lately.

So no productivity gains or increases to the standard of living since 1949?

How about an even more basic set of premises:

Do you believe that greater specialization leads to increased productivity?

Is there a correlation between specialization and the size of the labor pool?

Why is it that we develop software products and buy bread from bakeries? Why not own tractor, maintain a tractor, apply fertilizer, till acreage, sow seeds, irrigate, manage pests, harvest, mill the resulting wheat, knead the dough and bake the bread ourselves?

Better yet, just build a tractor at home from iron ore.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#47

Post by wood_spirit »

timmg wrote: post #22
philips wrote: post #4

The article is heavy on criticism of population decline and light on an argument of why it is so bad. As a parent in the USA I also don’t buy the argument that it is all education and birth control driving these changes. Many of my acquaintances simply cannot afford the costs of multiple children. And for others climate anxiety makes them question the future.

> Many of my acquaintances simply cannot afford the costs of multiple children. I can't speak for your friends. But I think that when someone says "can't afford" what they really mean is "I'd rather spend that money on something else". Some people literally can't afford children. But those in the middle class (or better) in the US certainly can . It would just take money away from other parts of their lifestyle: the…

Those whom I know who talk about not being able to “afford children” mean that they wouldn’t be able to give those children the lifestyle and financial security that they deem acceptable. They don’t want to compromise and give their children less future comforts and safety than they currently enjoy, so they don’t dare have children on those terms. And often they have a nagging natural need to have children, so the discussion and reasoning is always tinged in a deep sadness.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#48

Post by gklitz »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #25

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

> if you believe that people are perfectly fungible and that an Indonesian man will become accepted as Japanese

This is never going to happen going from the firsthand accounts I have heard from non-ethnically Japanese people who are by all accounts Japanese. As in born and raised in Japan, Japanese as first language, Japanese culture, norms etc. Japanese society is simply too racist or xenophobic at its core. If you don’t look ethnically Japanese you’ll never be accepted as Japanese. And that’s even if you are white and even if your partly ethnically Japanese. If you have dark skin you at in for an even tougher time, and any hint of it going back several generations will label you as “the outsider”.

It might not seem like it from the outside because the racism isn’t as outspoken in media as in the US, but imagine spending your entire childhood living with everyone you ever come across acting like you don’t belong to the only country and nationality you have ever known simply because your fathers father was Scottish, it’s rough and a hell on its own.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#49

Post by thriftwy »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #45
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #25

I've spent an awful lot of time in both Croatia and Japan, and the problem looks more or less the same in both places. Croatia has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people to other EU countries that offer higher salaries, or to Zagreb if they can't find a job in Denmark or Germany. Japan has had sub-replacement fertility for decades -- plus the migration of young people from sma…

Totallly fine for a Ukrainian woman to become Miss Japan: https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/ukrainian-born-miss-japan-...

With both Japan and Ukraine leading in depopulation, no amount of population swapping between them will save either one.

Re: Forget about overpopulation, soon there will be too few humans

#50

Post by sylware »

In my country, roughly speaking, only the really poor with state assistance seems to be able to afford having multiple children (or I guess, people who are members of powerful network of "in-betweeners" with translates to a near state assistance level). People seems to adapt their choices and behavior based on that fact. For instance, middle class women usually would not pick a socialy and economically risky father, this is an expected behavior. I guess "solid" fathers are more and more rare.
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