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Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

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Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#81

Post by fdgjgbdfhgb »

madsbuch wrote: post #28
zooq_ai wrote: post #9

French Software Engineers make $60k per year. I'm sure they wonder why and think striking / unionizing is the answer

French employees are generelle low paid in cash. however, a big part of the compensation is through labor protection - something that is not worth a lot to a software developer. currently, France had a serious issue with brain drain. software developers move to Germany or the UK to get higher salaries. This gives a situation where all advanced jobs move out while simpler job stay back with really expensive labor prot…

> however, a big part of the compensation is through labor protection - something that is not worth a lot to a software developer

Maybe that was true in previous years, but I have found it very comforting to know that I'm almost unfirable (specially compared to my US peers), and even if I do get laid off I still have a ~12 month runway provided by the government.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#82

Post by walidthedream »

janmo wrote: post #25
askonomm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 60k bad? Pretty sure it's the average salary in the entire Europe.

60k EUR before taxes and healthcare + retirement deduction I suppose. So after taxes and mandatory deductions it is 45k USD, which not that much if you are in a city like Paris.

Privacyonsec let me laugh so you say you make 45k net in Paris and you live very comfortably ? That means ur gross is around 60k. 3700 a month in your pocket ie 4k usd. When rents are around 2k a month let me guess you live in a 30 square meter hole or your room sharing your flat or your living in a gritty suburb or dad & mum have you covered . When any decent car would cost you 300 € a month, telco bundle 100 €, 100 € energy minimum, add 200 € minimum of property charges if you own your flat. 250 € of food if you go to low class hard discount store, 50 euros transportation if you don’t own or leade car , that makes already 3000 euros a month of spending. Add various taxes and fees if you’re landlord, say 200 euro a month. 100 min for health care. You now have 400 euros left in you bank account left, I hope you don’t have any kid like most of parisians , other you go broke in no time. And I didn’t count anything Paris has to offer : restaurant costing 20 euros per person on average, cinema at 10 euros etc. France is being destroyed by privileged people or cheap people that thing they are virtually rich while in fact they are virtually poor.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#83

Post by eloisant »

madsbuch wrote: post #28
zooq_ai wrote: post #9

French Software Engineers make $60k per year. I'm sure they wonder why and think striking / unionizing is the answer

French employees are generelle low paid in cash. however, a big part of the compensation is through labor protection - something that is not worth a lot to a software developer. currently, France had a serious issue with brain drain. software developers move to Germany or the UK to get higher salaries. This gives a situation where all advanced jobs move out while simpler job stay back with really expensive labor prot…

The problem of software developers in France is not that French salaries are lower than other countries overall, but software development salaries in France compared to other professions. In North America and Northern Europe countries software development is a high paying job, in France not as much.

But things are changing. Yes a lot of software dev jobs are crap (typically IT Services companies) but you also have Big Tech and other high paying tech companies in France. While it's still a bit less than other countries, as a senior you can easily get a TC above 130k euros even as an individual contributor.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#84

Post by madsbuch »

silisili wrote: post #42
madsbuch wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French employees are generelle low paid in cash. however, a big part of the compensation is through labor protection - something that is not worth a lot to a software developer. currently, France had a serious issue with brain drain. software developers move to Germany or the UK to get higher salaries. This gives a situation where all advanced jobs move out while simpler job stay back with really expensive labor prot…

How are social protections for say, losing a job, health emergencies, and retirement? 90% of my drive for more and more money is the fear of long term unemployment and knowing there's nobody to come save me. If that fear didn't exist, I'd probably work for half the price to be honest.

As in most other European countries social security, health and retirement is provided on a subsistence level.

I think this is what differs from EU to the US. EU is great for subsistence seekers while the US is much better for aspirational people.

The issue is just that you need both to have a good country. An aspirational person also need to be able to shop, eat, etc. And subsistence people also want access to the newest comforts such as being able to access newest medical treatments.

As an aspirational person myself, I tend to be negative around the subsistence arguments thinking people need a notch to work. Just like subsistence people tend to take for granted the amount of effort is takes to safely make accessible a new treatment and feel entitlement around social security, health, and retirement services.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#85

Post by usea »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #64
devjab wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To many Danes (everyone I’ve ever discussed it with) Americans are simply “ridiculous” in the way you keep electing people who hurt you. It’s like you’re in a continuous abusive relationship with your own democracy. My wife and I just had twins, and while it went fine they needed CPAP to help their lungs develop fully because they were born with a c-section. Which put them in the children’s intensive care unit for ar…

I'm American and I don't disagree that America has serious problems, but you should be leery of trying to compare your country with another country, especially if you haven't lived there and have only read about it. I was a military wife for about two decades and had two children during that time and it cost next to nothing to spend two or three nights in the hospital to give birth and then all outpatient visits for…

As a first approximation from a quick google search, approximately 2.75% of US children are born to one or more parents who are in the military. This was not hard information to find, but I can't vouch for its veracity; the language used is sloppy and without sources.

A bunch of pages all say the same line that 100,000 children are born each year to "military families", or about 1.5 million between 2003 and 2016. Google also says that about 3.65 million children are born in the US each year. I used division to reach the percentage. I'm sure it's not perfect, but it gives us some idea.

As to your wider point, the idea that you as an American have been unable to find this information and therefore anyone who is not American cannot have a valid observation of the issue because they are missing this critical info is less than useful.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#86

Post by arexxbifs »

phantomathkg wrote: post #52
kevmo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To nitpick: It WOULD work, but alas, you don't do it. This is also why the USA has all those anti-strike laws, especially regarding railroads.

> This is also why the USA has all those anti-strike laws, especially regarding railroads. And the people suffer?

Only from things like regular and catastrophic freight train derailments.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#87

Post by eloisant »

dgellow wrote: post #45
askonomm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 60k bad? Pretty sure it's the average salary in the entire Europe.

The average in France is around 42k€ a year. 60k€ is perfectly decent compared to other professions. It’s also good but on the lower end for a non-senior software developer.

That's the thing, in other countries software development is a high paying job. Not a "slightly above average" job.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#88

Post by ponector »

xavxav wrote: post #61
silisili wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are social protections for say, losing a job, health emergencies, and retirement? 90% of my drive for more and more money is the fear of long term unemployment and knowing there's nobody to come save me. If that fear didn't exist, I'd probably work for half the price to be honest.

> health emergencies We have socialized health care, and even private care is like 1% the cost of american healthcare. I got elective surgery without insurance which included full anethesia in a private clinic and they were very sorry because the total would be 600 euros. > retirement Public retirement is ~50% of your average lifetime salary though the age was recently raised from 62 to 64 (in the face of massive pro…

60k per year is around 3200€ per month after taxes. It could be comfortable upper class level life only if you own the place you live and have a small family without special needs. If you rent and have few children - you screwed.

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#89

Post by wazoox »

bionsystem wrote: post #58
romantomjak wrote: post #5

I'm consistently impressed by French solidarity to just go on a strike until they get their government (or a company in this case) to start treating them fairly. I wish that could work in the UK, but alas, we don't do that here.

In France striking is a fundamental right just like marching (assuming you make the demand to the authorities and it gets accepted). However what I dislike about the situation is that everybody strikes and manifests for his own core interest separately. I think we should really get into a more coordinated effort. Most of those strikes have failed.

You're not asking for the authority to accept you to march, you simply announce that you'll march, which, as a fundamental right, can't be rejected by the authorities beforehand unless there are serious reasons to believe that major trouble will occur. Though in the recent years several protests were forbidden by the authorities, it still is completely exceptional, and the marches happened anyway (and of course, major fights with the police ensued).

Re: Ubisoft Employees In France have gone on a Strike

#90

Post by DoreenMichele »

usea wrote: post #85
DoreenMichele wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American and I don't disagree that America has serious problems, but you should be leery of trying to compare your country with another country, especially if you haven't lived there and have only read about it. I was a military wife for about two decades and had two children during that time and it cost next to nothing to spend two or three nights in the hospital to give birth and then all outpatient visits for…

As a first approximation from a quick google search, approximately 2.75% of US children are born to one or more parents who are in the military. This was not hard information to find, but I can't vouch for its veracity; the language used is sloppy and without sources. A bunch of pages all say the same line that 100,000 children are born each year to "military families", or about 1.5 million between 2003 and 2016. Goo…

That's not at all what I talked about wondering about:

I have looked for data on just how many Americans get some portion of their medical care covered as military dependents for some portion of their life

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