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V Language Review (2023)

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Re: V Language Review (2023)

#91

Post by andrewflnr »

Lots of people have commented on the level of anger directed at V. Personally I do think the lies justify it, and it's definitely part of the picture, but in practice mere marketing BS (unfortunately) doesn't usually raise this level of anger. I don't think that's the full reason.

I think part of the reason is that a lot of us want to believe something like V is possible, powerful safety features in a small conceptual and complexity footprint. So the first time we heard about V, we got excited, thinking maybe it could really be the cool thing it claims to be...

No one likes false hope. It really stings, actually. Then you find out they're not correcting their mistakes, which means they're doing it on purpose, which means they did it to you on purpose... that's the kind of thing that gets people pissed.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#92

Post by krowek »

mirashii wrote: post #31
lkey wrote: post #9

V's claims have always been dubious on their face. It promised the programming language equivalent of magic with no overhead. I'm glad that someone took the time to print receipts. The author clearly wants a reckoning, but he's unlikely to receive satisfaction. The people that still use or evangelize V are locked in, the contradictions will only make their belief stronger. Alex is a bullshitter, and arguing with some…

To top it all off, prominent folks from the V community often engage in flamewars on this exact site. dang has threatened to ban the topic entirely before [1], and honestly at this point I'm pretty supportive of it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37335249

The part when he suggests removing comments in HN is hilarious. Like accepting his rotten behavior as the norm everywhere.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#93

Post by delian66 »

AndyKelley wrote: post #85
lerno wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, out of the C alternative languages Zig, Odin and C3 - Zig’s always been the one with the most open bugs despite (or due to?) having by far the most amount of people working on it. Ironic now when the compiler is written in Zig considering how Zig is advertising itself as being better at stability and reliability than C/C++ (the C3 compiler is written in C and Odin’s compiler is a C-like C++)

[flagged]

https://github.com/vlang/v/issues

873 open, 7275 closed.

The ratio is important. What is it for the ones you listed?

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#94

Post by archargelod »

sergiotapia wrote: post #20
whiterock wrote: post #12

Thank you for this. Saved me a lot of time and hassle - definietly steering clear of V land. A similar review for Nim would be of interest to me. Should not be that bad I‘d hope.

I've written a few projects in Nim. Unfortunately there seems to be a big "civil war" happening right now in Nim land where it's the creator vs big-names going at it for some reason. Can't remember. Like if Chris McCord suddenly started fighting with Jose Valim and Elixir became split right down the middle. I stopped using Nim because I couldn't get over how bad the documentation was. Hard to navigate, hard to find w…

> Unfortunately there seems to be a big "civil war" happening right now in Nim land

I believe the war is already over, the other side forked the language and seems to move in their own direction to create something new - https://github.com/nim-works/nimskull . That's probably for the better.

I've been around Nim communtiy around a year and I haven't seen any major conflicts break out since these people left. Nim is still actively developed and a joy to use. And even the creator of the language, deemed as dictator or asshole by some, comes off only as grumpy old man (show me an old man who isn't grumpy, duh). Who also realizes his flaws and is willing to compromise.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#95

Post by avgcorrection »

arp242 wrote: post #73
Cavallium wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of vlang-related statistics are very suspicious, probably some of the metrics are boosted by a click farm or something similar. For example, 99% of the global google searches about "vlang" are from Beijing. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=...

"golang" seems to have similar statistics: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=... So I'm not sure if that's evidence of metric boosting by a click farm, or anything else. Clicking on the question mark, it looks like it's not really a ranking of "where do searches come from", but rather "how popular is it in this region": > Numbers represent search interest relative to the highest point on the…

> "golang" seems to have similar statistics: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=...

But Go is a working programming language.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#96

Post by metaltyphoon »

nurettin wrote: post #88
metaltyphoon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have more starts than C# at 10k

Then Mojo also has more stars than C#. I guess GitHub stars don't mean much.

I wouldn’t say useless. It shows a particular interest over a project ( when not used as a bookmark)

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#97

Post by avgcorrection »

epolanski wrote: post #34

I'm awed at how far people would go both in studying, analyzing and writing about a language they clearly dislike.

Oh no. Someone had the grit to document their experiences with a technology that they dislike and share it with us. What a tragedy.

Most people don’t have the energy for that and just move on. Which doesn’t help others.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#98

Post by benstigsen »

I joined Vlang GitHub organisation after I was invited. I was aware of the "V for Vaporware" articles [1] that already existed, but at that point they were more than a year old, so things had probably changed. It didn't take long for me to disagree with the way things were moderated, with many negative responses by the moderators to the people with criticism (often valid). I'm talking about moderators calling people "idiots" in the general publicly available chat.

I loved the idea of simplicity, autofree, the UI framework, the browser, Volt app, GitHub alternative, operating system and so much more. But it just didn't seem to go anywhere. The syntax however was simple, I really admired it and by 0.3 they would have a syntax freeze, but I do see that some major syntax has changed after 0.3 multiple times. I left the same day another developer did, and having talked with multiple V developers shortly after, four of them said they agreed to my criticism about moderation and broken promises. Alex (the creator) wrote to me personally, but denied all the criticism which was mentioned in the "V for Vaporware" articles.

In the moderator channel Alex mentioned that autofree wouldn't be delivered in 0.3 and this became my main criticism in the DMs. He could not see why I found it important to notify the community about this, while also telling me to "grow up" for not supporting offensive language, referencing some of the ways Linus Torvalds has written responses.

Shortly thereafter he blocked me privately. It wasn't clear to me if I was blocked though, as Discord just told me I couldn't reach him. So I contacted one of the moderators, who told me that it's due to culture differences.

At one point I even searched in the Discord for messages by Alex that contained "this week", "this month" and "this year", also using "next" instead of "this". It came out to 50+ times that deadlines had been missed (closer to 80+ probably). Even with some major projects such as Gitly from 2019 if I remember correctly, which still isn't done.

[1] https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23/

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#99

Post by dang »

AndyKelley wrote: post #85
lerno wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, out of the C alternative languages Zig, Odin and C3 - Zig’s always been the one with the most open bugs despite (or due to?) having by far the most amount of people working on it. Ironic now when the compiler is written in Zig considering how Zig is advertising itself as being better at stability and reliability than C/C++ (the C3 compiler is written in C and Odin’s compiler is a C-like C++)

[flagged]

Would you please edit out swipes from your HN comments, as the site guidelines request? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your post would be fine without the last sentence.

Re: V Language Review (2023)

#100

Post by dang »

lerno wrote: post #83
TwentyPosts wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I ran into a compiler bug in Zig within a few hours of using it. I'd still expect Zig to be a lot less buggy than V, based on what I heard. Last time I looked at V it just seemed like the language wanted to have it all. No tradeoffs, just "The best parts of Rust and Go" with no explanation how that's remotely achievable (and it wasn't, judging by the attempts to make "auto free" memory management happen,…

Then again, out of the C alternative languages Zig, Odin and C3 - Zig’s always been the one with the most open bugs despite (or due to?) having by far the most amount of people working on it. Ironic now when the compiler is written in Zig considering how Zig is advertising itself as being better at stability and reliability than C/C++ (the C3 compiler is written in C and Odin’s compiler is a C-like C++)

Please don't do programming language flamewar on HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

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