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Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

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Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#91

Post by dylan604 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #79
mtrower wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words, you disagree with the post I'm replying to? > I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever. You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Also, there's the whole matter of various public school systems. Regardless, if there hasn't been any pressure for you, then this is sort of a non-sequitur, as my comment is talking about situations where there is pressure to begin with. Non-pres…

> You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Ok, such as? > Non-pressure situations are out of scope. I am attempting to say this with respect, believe me: I am saying the pressure is not real. At least in my experience, it's not worth your time. I respect that you may have a different situation than I do, and you may experience pressure of this type differently than I do, but "pressure" strikes me as…

> I am saying the pressure is not real

are you willing to take the Pepsi challenge? next event you go to that does the anthem ritual, i challenge you to not participate by sitting down. see what kind of not real pressure you feel then.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#92

Post by jvanderbot »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #83
jvanderbot wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

>I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever. Then why do you stand? You can get away without singing, but there is an immense amount of pressure on you to "show respect."

I don't always stand. This is silly. I can't say you shouldn't feel your feelings and you can't say I should. Cheers!

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#93

Post by cjbgkagh »

dylan604 wrote: post #14

Trevor Noah has a bit about how 'muricans are the only ones that sing the national anthem all the damn time. He adds how it's also the only anthem where it is sung differently each time depending on the performer. Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. It just feels very cultish or something you'd e…

The morning pledge was intentionally pushed during a time when it was considered people were insufficiently patriotic. To make it even more fascistic it used to be the Roman salute pre-WWII. The US is surprisingly Germanic.

I think the multitude of anthems are pushed by military funding to intentionally conflate patriotism with support for the military.

One thing I especially don’t like is the reflexive ‘thank you for your service’ that has entered into polite behavior. I believe that was an intentional and highly effective campaign. I personally refuse to do it even to be polite. I take the Smedly D Butlers view that ‘War is a racket’.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#94

Post by cjbgkagh »

tptacek wrote: post #81
rayiner wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think falling away from a national identity hurts everyone. I agree but it’s the basic defect at the heart of America. It’s a country founded by anti-social individualists, replenished by waves and waves of the sort of anti-social people who would leave their kin and move to the other side of the world. Christianity was the only thing keeping the country from declining into pure atomized individualism, and the ho…

From where are you getting this idea that America was founded by "anti-social individualists"? What I was taught is that it was founded by people with immense faith in innate goodness of people and the rightness of governance by the people.

There may be a conflation of the founding fathers with the initial stock of pilgrims which is understandable given the ambiguity of the term ‘founded’.

I guess the pilgrims would be considered anti-social as they didn’t ’go along to get along’ but AFAIK powerful trade guilds dominated a large part of the economic private life and the people persecuted/excluded from them may not have had much choice in the matter.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#95

Post by cjbgkagh »

rayiner wrote: post #44
dylan604 wrote: post #14

Trevor Noah has a bit about how 'muricans are the only ones that sing the national anthem all the damn time. He adds how it's also the only anthem where it is sung differently each time depending on the performer. Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. It just feels very cultish or something you'd e…

> Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. We live in a society. The government takes 40-50% of your income every year so you can support the other people who are part of the same society. It allows you to survive and protects you from those that would harm you both internal and external. Saying a sho…

Such taxes to such an extent are relatively modern in US history. I think people like to think that the money is spent for good because it would hurt even more if it wasn’t but I think much of it is wasted and a lot of it is counter productive. But perhaps I’m bitter at having governments subsides my competitors making my industry really unfair.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#96

Post by romafirst3 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #77
dylan604 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the person suggested that I not go to the event. Also, as "not mandatory", have you ever chosen to remain seated and experienced the reaction from those around you? You'll definitely get the feeling "not mandatory" is a very much incorrect description.

I'll quote myself from another comment: > haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever. YMMV, but I do just stand up and not sing. It's not the end of the world. And some people always keep their hand down, instead of over…

Why even stand up?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#97

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #78
rayiner wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought we fought a war because we didn’t want to free our slaves?

That's not what I was taught. Is it what you were taught?

We went to school in the before times. Lots of people believe various versions of that view now: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/2/8884885/american-revolution-mis...; https://nyupress.org/9781479893409/the-counter-revolution-of...; https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/1776-counter-revolution-u...

I suspect in a couple of decades it will become the accepted view. It’s similar to how by 1990 (when I was in school) we had erased Christianity from the national origin story by projecting Thomas Jefferson’s deism onto all the founders.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#98

Post by romafirst3 »

rayiner wrote: post #64
henriquez wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of us asked for this. Sure you can argue that we’re lucky. That would be like chiding a clinically depressed person for “feeling down” because other people in other countries have it worse off. Performative chants serve as a form of mass hypnosis - to solidify the legitimacy of a batshit insane society in the weak minds who just want to go along to get along. Our society is fucked. And those of us fortunate enou…

[flagged]

Even the concept that there are shithole countries is extremely dumb.

I think you’ll find in those other shit hole countries people are (strangely enough) just as patriotic to their fabulous country.

That should tell you something about patriotism and living in a shithole country.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#99

Post by romafirst3 »

dylan604 wrote: post #66
pezezin wrote: post #31

It would be nice if the headline mentioned that the article is about the US national anthem, as there are about 200 other countries in the world, each one with their own anthem.

and how many of the other ~200 countries is it common for their respective anthem to be sung with diva-ness? i'd suggest the fault is with the reader if you can't figure out something from context clues

Really?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#100

Post by porker »

rayiner wrote: post #44
dylan604 wrote: post #14

Trevor Noah has a bit about how 'muricans are the only ones that sing the national anthem all the damn time. He adds how it's also the only anthem where it is sung differently each time depending on the performer. Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. It just feels very cultish or something you'd e…

> Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. We live in a society. The government takes 40-50% of your income every year so you can support the other people who are part of the same society. It allows you to survive and protects you from those that would harm you both internal and external. Saying a sho…

> The government takes 40-50% of your income every year

Wait, America now has European levels of taxation?

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