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Selfish reasons to want more humans

rootsofprogress.org

21–30 of 480 posts

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#21

The arguments in the linked article all seem rooted in a traditional Western weltanschauung . This worldview is increasingly characterized (not without basis) as racist, sexist and fascist, mostly by critics whose personal positive contributions to human improvement are unclear. I'm not driving this bus; I just seem to be going under it. Maybe after the societal collapse the survivors can agree that the Critical Theo…

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Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#22

    More ambitious projects need a certain critical mass of resources behind them. Ancient Egyptian civilization built a large irrigation system to make the best use of the Nile floodwaters for agriculture, a feat that would not have been possible to a small tribe or chiefdom. 
This doesn't mean people, we're no longer bound by labour intensive solutions.

I live in a single state with a tiny population that mines and ships 16x more raw iron ore, almost a billion tonnes per annum, than peak annual iron ore mining in the entire USofA ever. We also mine a millions of tonnes of other resources. This is entirely down to bigger machines, smarter technology, and factors that don't require more people.

The arguments presented here for even more people on the globe are sketchy at best, no weight at all is given to the downsides of truly challenging levels of resource extraction currently at play to meet the high consumption demands of a small proportion of the large population we already have on the planet.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#23
We need more time to deal with finite resources and pollution. A larger population would decrease the time we would have to find solutions. Even if most of the current world population lived sustainably, we would still need 2.5 earths to support the current population size indefinitely. I believe that we need about 6.5 earths at the moment.

Maybe if we had off world colonies this would be a good opinion, but this blog post is just a bad argument

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#24
post #5

I really believed this argument growing up in a white, middle class household in the 1980s. I’m more skeptical now, after two decades of helping build our current technocracy. I think there is a sweet spot between the dystopian lawlessness of prehistory and early human history, and the dystopian future of rapacious consumption and late stage capitalism.

In the words "mindless consumption" the problem is not with "consumption" but with "mindless".

If you ask people in the third world, they badly want and need higher levels of consumption. And they will attain it, barring some global catastrophe.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#25
Wrong.

You want the largest viable population. That is, a population below carrying capacity.

A population over carrying capacity just consumes the environment that sustains it and dies off collectively.

Today we are over carrying capacity at a global level, and many regions are also over carrying capacity at a local level.

The population centers built around groundwater aquifers pumped aggresively, overfishing, or dying topsoil, which are most of them, are doomed.

Unless there is an innovation that unlocks rapid topsoil regeneration, freshwater replenishment, and plentiful food sources covering the growing global demand for fish, at scale and meeting market demand at low prices, humanity is bound to have a conflict over the remaining resources.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#26
The problem is that infrastructure doesn't scale nearly as quickly as birth rates, let alone immigration. Cities are getting overcrowded, and many, many attempts by many different countries have proven the difficulty of bootstrapping new cities in the middle of otherwise economically underperforming land, like agricultural fields or even desert. Pretty much every existing major city is bursting at the seams: insufficient housing, insufficient transportation infrastructure, insufficient utility infrastructure.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#27
post #8

The population growth rate needs to be controlled, even reduced, to reduce the pressure on natural resources and slow down the climate change. John Baez, mathematician at UCR, talks about this approach among a number of others, such as, reducing air travel for conferences.

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Real gentlemen start with themselves. Not having children is one such choice.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#29
post #22

More ambitious projects need a certain critical mass of resources behind them. Ancient Egyptian civilization built a large irrigation system to make the best use of the Nile floodwaters for agriculture, a feat that would not have been possible to a small tribe or chiefdom. This doesn't mean people, we're no longer bound by labour intensive solutions. I live in a single state with a tiny population that mines and ship…

It’s either labor or capital (to buy/dev those machines). Frankly, if it’s capital and we haven’t transitioned to something closer to socialism or even communism, it isn’t going to end very well for us workers.

Re: Selfish reasons to want more humans

#30
post #8

The population growth rate needs to be controlled, even reduced, to reduce the pressure on natural resources and slow down the climate change. John Baez, mathematician at UCR, talks about this approach among a number of others, such as, reducing air travel for conferences.

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The rate of the growth can be reduced. After a generation or two, so does the total size.
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