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Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

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Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#71

Post by dylan604 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #68
dylan604 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone's not allowed to go to a sporting event because you say so? That's a load of crap. I'll go to whatever event I want. If they have one of these dear leader performances, I just stand there thinking about whatever is on my mind. If you like it, you can sing your little heart out. But I'm not going to not go to something I enjoy because you might get offended at my non-participation in your cult-like ritual

How did we jump from "this is not mandatory" to "you're not allowed"

Because the person suggested that I not go to the event.

Also, as "not mandatory", have you ever chosen to remain seated and experienced the reaction from those around you? You'll definitely get the feeling "not mandatory" is a very much incorrect description.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#72

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #62
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. We live in a society. The government takes 40-50% of your income every year so you can support the other people who are part of the same society. It allows you to survive and protects you from those that would harm you both internal and external. Saying a sho…

Maybe in England, but we fought a whole revolution not to say dumb shit like this unless and until the spirit moves us. It's why we're better. Are they just not teaching civics anymore? Even the nuns at St. Barnabas were clear on this point with us. If this is reverse psychology trying to get me to put my hand on my heart and pledge the flag, well played.

I thought we fought a war because we didn’t want to free our slaves?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#73

Post by mtrower »

jvanderbot wrote: post #69
mtrower wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, and it may be of personal value to pursue this for yourself. That's different from socially badgering others into it at group events.

I haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

So in other words, you disagree with the post I'm replying to?

> I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Also, there's the whole matter of various public school systems. Regardless, if there hasn't been any pressure for you, then this is sort of a non-sequitur, as my comment is talking about situations where there is pressure to begin with. Non-pressure situations are out of scope.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#74

Post by ceejayoz »

mp05 wrote: post #48
vunderba wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really crazy thing is that the original pledge of allegiance made no reference to god at all . It was added as late as 1954, when Congress passed a law which added the words “under God” after “one nation.” A year later Emmett Till, a 14-year-old African American boy, was brutally murdered in Mississippi after allegedly flirting with a white woman. His killers were acquitted by an all-white jury. But ya know, at l…

> But ya know, at least we shoehorned religion into our pledge. "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Look I find it way overplayed to the point of losing any meaning, and a lot of people (civilians) assign some deeper meaning to the ceremony than is likely warranted, and probably parti…

It's notable that when it came time to write the Constitution, those "all men are created equal" folks put the Three-Fifths Compromise into the actual backbone of the new country's legal system.

Said Creator they deliberately left out entirely. It popped into the Pledge during the era of fighting the "godless Commies".

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#75

Post by rayiner »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #32
dylan604 wrote: post #14

Trevor Noah has a bit about how 'muricans are the only ones that sing the national anthem all the damn time. He adds how it's also the only anthem where it is sung differently each time depending on the performer. Personally, I have always felt very strange in the entire concept of having to sing this at various events or in school as well as the pledging of allegiance. It just feels very cultish or something you'd e…

The anthem uncoupled from what it stands for may seem strange, which is why it’s so important to remember the lives of the fathers, brothers, and sons sacrificed at Fort McHenry holding up the flag through the night, and all the lives lost since then holding up the foundations of freedom and our way of life. If you’re living in America enjoying the (ever shrinking) bounty of liberties we have, it’s good and healthy f…

> I think falling away from a national identity hurts everyone.

I agree but it’s the basic defect at the heart of America. It’s a country founded by anti-social individualists, replenished by waves and waves of the sort of anti-social people who would leave their kin and move to the other side of the world. Christianity was the only thing keeping the country from declining into pure atomized individualism, and the hold of that is on the verge of collapsing.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#76

Post by mtrower »

dylan604 wrote: post #60
dctoedt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of those uncomfortable moments of having to perform some oath and pledge my allegiance ... FWIW, I seldom if ever say the Pledge of Allegiance — I took the oath to support and defend the Constitution many years ago when I joined the Navy, and then again as a lawyer; I figure that ought to be plenty ....

Yeah, luckily, that seems to have stopped for the most part after grade school. I have been to a couple of events as an adult that did that, and it felt very bizarre. My "favorite" part is that they are having kids recite a pledge knowing full well that most of them have no understanding to what it actually means. Taking a pledge should be one of those "I, state your name, of sound mind and body, pledge allegiance...…

I would guess that having it drilled in from childhood probably has something to do with it. By taking issue with it, you're going against the flow and people in general seem to be uncomfortable with that sort of thing. It also seems to me, that people tend to associate it with something other than the actual words that are being spoken.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#77

Post by jvanderbot »

dylan604 wrote: post #71
jvanderbot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did we jump from "this is not mandatory" to "you're not allowed"

Because the person suggested that I not go to the event. Also, as "not mandatory", have you ever chosen to remain seated and experienced the reaction from those around you? You'll definitely get the feeling "not mandatory" is a very much incorrect description.

I'll quote myself from another comment:

> haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

YMMV, but I do just stand up and not sing. It's not the end of the world. And some people always keep their hand down, instead of over heart. Again, I'm really not experiencing difficulties here, but I respect that there might be other factors. Like, do you live in the deep south?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#78

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #72
tptacek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in England, but we fought a whole revolution not to say dumb shit like this unless and until the spirit moves us. It's why we're better. Are they just not teaching civics anymore? Even the nuns at St. Barnabas were clear on this point with us. If this is reverse psychology trying to get me to put my hand on my heart and pledge the flag, well played.

I thought we fought a war because we didn’t want to free our slaves?

That's not what I was taught. Is it what you were taught?

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#79

Post by jvanderbot »

mtrower wrote: post #73
jvanderbot wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't sung a hymn, pledge or anthem since I was 11 or so. I just stand there and watch, be it church, baseball, hockey, whatever. 32 years and nothing bad has happened yet. (Hooray freedom?). I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever.

So in other words, you disagree with the post I'm replying to? > I don't believe there is any pressure whatsoever. You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have. Also, there's the whole matter of various public school systems. Regardless, if there hasn't been any pressure for you, then this is sort of a non-sequitur, as my comment is talking about situations where there is pressure to begin with. Non-pres…

> You've clearly not been to some of the events that I have.

Ok, such as?

> Non-pressure situations are out of scope.

I am attempting to say this with respect, believe me: I am saying the pressure is not real. At least in my experience, it's not worth your time. I respect that you may have a different situation than I do, and you may experience pressure of this type differently than I do, but "pressure" strikes me as subjective because in fact there are no real consequences that I'm aware of (as in legal, regulatory, etc). And, without further details, we can freely end here dismissing eachothers' perspectives as irrelevant.

Re: Quantifying the diva-ness of national anthem performances

#80

Post by dylan604 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #74
mp05 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ya know, at least we shoehorned religion into our pledge. "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Look I find it way overplayed to the point of losing any meaning, and a lot of people (civilians) assign some deeper meaning to the ceremony than is likely warranted, and probably parti…

It's notable that when it came time to write the Constitution, those "all men are created equal" folks put the Three-Fifths Compromise into the actual backbone of the new country's legal system. Said Creator they deliberately left out entirely. It popped into the Pledge during the era of fighting the "godless Commies".

> It popped into the Pledge during the era of fighting the "godless Commies".

and fighting against civil rights. it is also the same era that people want to make great again. oops, i said the quiet part out loud again

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