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Losing two jobs in one year

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Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#21

Post by 3abiton »

vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

To piggyback on your point, some people like to be exploited, and I met so many hard working people who never realized the value of their work and how important they were to their company, maybe just blinded by the culture, but were severely underpaid.

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#22

Post by eru »

crooked-v wrote: post #4
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #2

Tying health insurance to employment. Was, is, and will be nuts.

Unfortunately, the US has a huge number of people who would rather have insurance-run for-profit death panels than government-run non-profit death panels.

Well, they could also deregulate their insurance and healthcare markets a lot.

Profit is only a small part of the overall costs.

See https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/20/the-amish-health-care-... for what's possible in the US right now:

> Amish people spend only a fifth as much as you do on health care, and their health is fine. What can we learn from them?

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#23

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

timeagain wrote: post #18
vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

This is a strategy, but your results may vary. After a few years meditating on how much of my psychic energy I could give to my work, I found that programming for work was impossible. Understanding systems enough to update them, debugging, and keeping up with the ecosystem are very hard work. For me there’s no way to do it well without thoughts of work clouding my brain at all hours of the day. On the other hand, doi…

> Understanding systems enough to update them, debugging, and keeping up with the ecosystem are very hard work. For me there’s no way to do it well without thoughts or work clouding my brain at all hours of the day.

I often think about that Isabel Fall attack helicopter story [1], where pilots of the AH-70 Apache Mystics must have their brains rewired to include the helicopter as part of their gender, so that they'll fly by intuition. Otherwise they wouldn't be good enough to fly.

I thought this was an interesting premise already, but now I wonder how much of my programming skill is really ego. How much of my code takes up space in my brain where gender or religion or joi de vivre or something was supposed to be stored.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Sexually_Identify_as_an_Atta...

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#24

Post by toomuchtodo »

3abiton wrote: post #21
vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

To piggyback on your point, some people like to be exploited, and I met so many hard working people who never realized the value of their work and how important they were to their company, maybe just blinded by the culture, but were severely underpaid.

The desire for meaning through their work is used against a worker.

https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/duke-fuqua-insights/kay-passion-e...

> The researchers found that people consider it more legitimate to make passionate employees leave family to work on a weekend, work unpaid, and handle unrelated tasks that were not in the job description.

> The team found passion exploitation consistently across eight studies with more than 2,400 total participants. The studies varied in design, in the participants (students, managers, random online samples) and in the kinds of jobs they considered.

> In one study, participants who read that an artist was strongly passionate about his job said it was more legitimate for the boss to exploit the artist than those who read the artist wasn’t as passionate. This finding extended to asking for work far beyond the job description, including leaving a day at the park with family and cleaning the office bathroom.

Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30998042/

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#25

Post by Aeolun »

andyg_blog wrote: post #8

Sometimes it takes an existential event in our lives to really drive home what actually matters. On your death bed you won't wish that you spent more time delivering value to a company (even a great one) than spending time nurturing relationships with loved ones. On another note, your value as a human is not the same as the economic value you produce, and it's too easy to conflate the two

> On your death bed you won't wish that you spent more time delivering value to a company (even a great one) than spending time nurturing relationships with loved ones.

To some extend. But I spend a lot of time with my loved ones. I would regret losing that the most, but I can totally imagine myself also feeling sad about that feature or project I never got to finish.

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#26

Post by renewiltord »

vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

Something I've noticed is that some people protest too much. The remote engineer who insists that in-person work is for people who can't find friends. The light worker who insists that people who like working have no better meaning in their life. The blue collar worker who says knowledge workers don't have basic life skills.

It's just obvious there's a chip on their shoulder. By default, no one cares about these things.

One of my friends cares most about her family, her husband cares about that but work is a much stronger part of his identity.

Many of my smartest friends work remotely very successfully. Others like me, just as smart, work in person well.

Our friends and family who work in restaurants and factories and driving buses are often happy, though some are not. And more of the knowledge workers are happy because they're wealthier but some are unhappy regardless.

But the most striking thing is the difference between the ones who are choosing their path and secure vs. the ones who show other signs of insecurity: it's the statement of their choices as being their own without the obligatory put down of the other. This mechanism of justifying their choices. Insecurity pervades. The person choosing other than them is always flawed in some way they are not. The other's choices alloyed by some sin.

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#27

Post by titanomachy »

timeagain wrote: post #18
vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

This is a strategy, but your results may vary. After a few years meditating on how much of my psychic energy I could give to my work, I found that programming for work was impossible. Understanding systems enough to update them, debugging, and keeping up with the ecosystem are very hard work. For me there’s no way to do it well without thoughts of work clouding my brain at all hours of the day. On the other hand, doi…

Damn. This is an interesting perspective.

I certainly agree about the apathy part. I can’t sustain mediocre or poor performance for long without having it spill into other areas of my life.

As for the impossibility of compartmentalizing software work… I hope you’re wrong. But my experience doesn’t exactly contradict you. Whenever I’ve felt good at my job it’s also been quite all-consuming.

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#29

Post by famahar »

SR2Z wrote: post #17
vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

IMO it's OK for work to be a big part of your identity. People should strive to achieve things professionally; it's a very human thing to master a craft for a living. But, to be fair, work != your specific company. It's stupid to tie your identity to the people hiring you.

In University the ultimate goal of almost every Comp Sci student was to work at a FAANG (or whatever it's called). Nothing else mattered. Students walked around with Google and Amazon t-shirts and Stickers. So much of University your identity was tied to working for big tech. Cult like when I look back.

Re: Losing two jobs in one year

#30

Post by _kb »

SR2Z wrote: post #17
vunderba wrote: post #7

If you only take one thing from this article, let it be this line: My work is only part of my identity. I'd argue that unless you're literally curing cancer, it should be the least important part of your identity. I've never let work be more than the tiniest facet of my existence that provides the resources necessary to well... not die. I understand this isn't the easiest thing for most people - tribalism and pack id…

IMO it's OK for work to be a big part of your identity. People should strive to achieve things professionally; it's a very human thing to master a craft for a living. But, to be fair, work != your specific company. It's stupid to tie your identity to the people hiring you.

I think the important detail is it's OK for it to form part of your identity, but it's also ok for it to not be.

If you spend a large part of your waking hours working on something enjoyable, absolutely embrace that. Conversely, if your work is drudgerous but you enjoy the simple things in life - like food and shelter - and it provides that then maybe some separation of identity is a good option too.

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