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Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

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Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#71

Post by godelski »

eek2121 wrote: post #4

Banks and data companies are moving to biometrics for proof of identity and you may have hit this. At least 3 credit card companies I use are signed up/using a biometrics/information provider. (they wouldn’t tell me who, despite federal disclosure requirements — I only knew they were using someone because my current accurate info was replaced by info from 7 years ago) There are companies trying very hard to find out…

I've always found this process and surveillance capitalism completely insane. It is a huge national security issue. I know governments like to have data on people to let them more effectively exert control (for good or bad) but the truth of the matter is that any data that is collected can similarly be used by your adversaries. It is always and will always be a double edged sword. I don't think the problems will be adequately resolved until this becomes deeply ingrained in both the public mind as well as the minds of politicians. Data is certainly extremely useful, but we need to take a moment to weigh the utility against how vulnerable it makes us.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#73

Post by lazide »

Arrath wrote: post #69
g051051 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other sources which leaked or sold it to them. Every data source (such as a bank or credit card) provides that data to CRAs because consumers granted permission to do so when entering into a business relationship. Either that, or it's publicly available data purchased from aggregators.

> because consumers granted permission to do so when entering into a business relationship Do we have an actual choice?

You could not get a loan or credit, I guess.

There are costs to that approach, of course.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#74

Post by NoblePublius »

cheriot wrote: post #36
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #27

The problem is, as you articulated, they are required by law to provide credit reporting information about you to you. They have no incentive to do this because they make their money by collecting and selling data about us. They have every reason to use this reporting requirement to collect more information about you. They have every reason to conflate credit freeze with credit hold , and confuse consumers in order t…

100% agree on the incentives Similar to why cookie accept/deny interfaces are atrocious. They're intended to be! I think a solution will require more creativity than "have the government do it", but the current system is clearly broken.

Every financial institution has its own credit file on you. They don’t need the third party services at all. Credit profiles can be created easily from any number of public data sources. These companies exist because we wrote laws requiring them to exist, and for no other reason.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#75

Post by chatmasta »

eek2121 wrote: post #4

Banks and data companies are moving to biometrics for proof of identity and you may have hit this. At least 3 credit card companies I use are signed up/using a biometrics/information provider. (they wouldn’t tell me who, despite federal disclosure requirements — I only knew they were using someone because my current accurate info was replaced by info from 7 years ago) There are companies trying very hard to find out…

Basically: a bunch of laws intersected to screw you over, even if it wasn't the intent of any one of them individually. But nobody cares, because anyone like you who looks out for their privacy is a weirdo.

:(

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#76

Post by Aloha »

alexb_ wrote: post #45
no_wizard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an idea: lets burn down FICO and the credit reporting bureaus. After all things seemed to work fine before credit scores. Perhaps we put too much "stock" in them in the first place. There has to be better ways to manage this. One way I could forsee is a government agency that acted as a reporting depot. Then you could forbid the sale of information, and create legislative firewalls for it to keep it out of the…

> After all things seemed to work fine before credit scores. Perhaps we put too much "stock" in them in the first place. There has to be better ways to manage this. The old way to do it, pre-credit score, is that they would take a look at your zip code, take a look at the color of your skin, and decide if you were a "trustworthy individual"

Or you'd have tot take out a literal letter of credit from your bank - who would use all of that, plus some other stuff to assess your worthiness.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#77

Post by smaudet »

lolinder wrote: post #68
g051051 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Update their dependencies within two months of a critical security vulnerability being patched (Mar 10 to May 12). They thought they did, but failed. > In the event of a breach, detect it within a reasonable timeframe (76 days is not reasonable when you're the Fort Knox of financial information). Impossible to guarantee. A sophisticated enough attack might never be detected, regardless of the competence of the secu…

> They thought they did, but failed. Oh, never mind then. Clearly since they thought they updated the dependency it's all good. > Impossible to guarantee. A sophisticated enough attack ... It is impossible to so completely segment a network ... While I will acknowledge that this seems to have been Equifax's approach to security (it's impossible to do completely so why bother doing it at all?), this is not widely acce…

And they should have been held accountable, were they?

If such an entity demonstrates gross negligence yet there are no repercussions, perhaps it is worse than negligence, it is outright larceny - Equifax could be characterizes as a govt supported cartel.

It is not unreasonable then we should actually physically destroy their premises and all related collected information as an active threat to the nation, as well as re-issuing all sensitive information to all affected individuals.

As for what to do instead, credit reporting need not be the important solution, rather one part of an accepted solution, such as multiple scores issued to multiple numbers that are not tied together by a single bureau. Then when credit checks are pulled it is not sufficient to use a single service and the incentive to illegally utilize said information decreases, as the relevance is reduced for any one credit check.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#78

Post by cheriot »

NoblePublius wrote: post #74
cheriot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree on the incentives Similar to why cookie accept/deny interfaces are atrocious. They're intended to be! I think a solution will require more creativity than "have the government do it", but the current system is clearly broken.

Every financial institution has its own credit file on you. They don’t need the third party services at all. Credit profiles can be created easily from any number of public data sources. These companies exist because we wrote laws requiring them to exist, and for no other reason.

If you don't like the terms with your current bank, how would you apply for a loan with a different one [that doesn't know you]? People need the ability to shop around.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#79

Post by smaudet »

lazide wrote: post #73
Arrath wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because consumers granted permission to do so when entering into a business relationship Do we have an actual choice?

You could not get a loan or credit, I guess. There are costs to that approach, of course.

Wildly unfeasible. The consumer does not have a choice, they do not have an ability to live within their means without incurring credit checks.

Take housing - perhaps it is possible to purchase outright a home with cash, however you will not find generally anyone willing to take payment in cash.

If you cannot afford that and are not taking a loan, then you must rent. However you cannot rent without a credit score.

So no the consumer did not consent to anything. This is a ridiculous and dishonest viewpoint.

Re: Tell HN: Equifax free credit report dark patterns

#80

Post by olliej »

g051051 wrote: post #52
olliej wrote: post #11

I still love the whole "we know our data is wrong, but we sell it as fact, and know that that information is used to impact cost to you, but you're required to constantly check with us, or pay us to tell you when we're lying". Yet somehow this isn't extortion, and somehow it's not illegal defamation. The moment credit agencies started running their own monitoring services, it seemed like they were openly admitting th…

> The moment credit agencies started running their own monitoring services, it seemed like they were openly admitting that they were defaming people. I still do not understand why this is legal. If you're signed up for credit monitoring, you get notified when your credit info gets changed, so you have a chance to react if it's an error (or fraud). How is that defamation? Why would it be illegal?

No.

It's defamation because they know their information is frequently incorrect, that it is trivial for people to get outright fraudulent transactions attached to people's "credit report". Knowing that, they then present that information as fact to others, despite knowing that the information they provided is used specifically for purposes where false information will add significant costs to the people they're reporting on.

Now you're right, I can get credit monitoring, in which I pay money so that I can spend my time verifying they're not publishing fraudulent information. So now it goes from defamation to extortion: we'll defame you unless you pay us and do the work of ensuring we don't defame you.

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