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After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

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Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#71
> The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination.

- Brooks, Mythical Man Month

I always take inspiration from this quote, both when times are good and when times are bad. When programming is easy, ah how just like glorious poetry it can feel. Natural and easy. When programming is hard, boy what exertion it can take to wrangle thoughts and ideas. Writing poetry when the creativity isn’t there, whatever it is, is just torturous.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#72

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

This is why I don't worry too much about AI. It can write the code better and faster than I do? Wow, you just freed up 5% of my day.

"Wow, you just freed up 5% of my day."

Got a good chuckle out of that one! You will need that 5% to review the code AI wrote!

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#73

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

This is why I don't worry too much about AI. It can write the code better and faster than I do? Wow, you just freed up 5% of my day.

Can't we send the AI to meetings instead?

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ The interaction of two programmers looking over a program that either one of them could have worked out is entirely different from the interaction of two programmers working on separate parts of a whole which is too great for either one to produce. The difference lies in the way conflicting demands are resolved. In the first case, resolution of conflict is the thinking process of one person—aided perhaps by other p…

Yes, pair programming is fine, but even just two folks working on something literally too complex to individually grasp necessitates committee work, paperwork, and all the rest.

Jerry Weinberg wasn't writing about pair programming. He was writing about group work and where the problems lie in the interactions.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#75

Reading the comments here, I am having a total Slashdot throwback moment. Did anybody actually read TFA? Most of the replies I am seeing here seem to have treated the article's title as a writing prompt. Read the whole article friends - it's got a nice amount of nuance and the author unpacks what they mean by "difficult" very well.

I feel quite a lot of people on HN simply react to the titles and that's it. Many people on HN also only read the comments. I know I do. I also sometimes read the post, it really depends.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#76

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Most of those processes, tps reports, jira and other annoyances is because in a programming environment you literally have too many cooks in the kitchen. Every programmer can create the system from scratch, so to prevent them from doing so, we have to make it super annoying. Basically it's a people problem. The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries. T…

Yeah. Except I need you to work on a legacy system from which we have only the source. Or on a project that you won't be able to handle alone for a time short enough for the product to keep relevance. Or any other big projects... How do you deal with this ?

Let's not speak about the need to sync with other team, external partner, showing progress to the management, getting the information from all those peoples, getting ready with side department like compliance, marketing or whatever is needed to make the work relevant.

So no, it's not to prevent anyone from starting a project from scratch. It's to make sure that the project will come to fruition, useful and if possible reach its goal.

And honestly, a good manager/tool will help deal with that. Now... there are a lot of them that create a kafkaesque hell.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#77
post #9

Greg Lemond wrote about fitness, "it never gets easier, you just get faster", which perhaps applies as well to programming.

I've always hated this saying, and I think the reason applies here too.

If you take up running and it never gets easier, that means you're never managing your pace and you're always going full throttle. That's a straight shot towards injury if not chronic disability. Most aerobic benefits happen at zone 2, where your heart rate is just above 'easy effort'. When you start out, this might just be walking, so it makes sense to run. But once you are able to sprint, you open up the ability to do more than just walk or sprint. You can jog, skip, run at a tempo pace, run at a race pace, etc., and you need to do those to maintain fitness and build up your chronic training load. That's not to say there aren't hard efforts at times, like when you do a sprint workout or hill repeats, but 90% of the time it should be and feel easier than when you started.

You can bring that to programming too. If it never gets easier, that means you're always pushing yourself and seeking challenges. That's not good for you, your coworkers, or your projects... everyone needs some grounding and to perform at a level they excel at. Not only will your velocity be more predictable, you won't burn out as easily. Challenges that increase that comfortable pace can be sought out, but usually they come naturally too.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#78

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Agreed.

I find work on my own code generally fun and easy and extremely productive. Vs, work on "other people's code" often frustrating and slow. I do often learn amazing stuff from other people's code though. What makes it slow is the time it takes to get a usually very incomplete mental model of what the code does and then trying to divine what the owners will want when I add a feature.

Unlike the original poster though, I have't had the experience of co-workers writing horrific code in most of my career. A few exceptions but mostly they've been great. Especially at FAANMG though I assume YMMV.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#79

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

People are 99% of the problem I have at work. Doing things poorly. Not caring about processes just wanting to get things out the door with little regard to quality unless the customer complains. Abuse of agile has made me hate it. 15-30 minutes a day wasted as the program manager leads it.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#80
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't worry too much about AI. It can write the code better and faster than I do? Wow, you just freed up 5% of my day.

Can't we send the AI to meetings instead?

People always ask "why would AI kill all the humans"

The above is the reason why. They'll be fine with the bullshit for awhile until they realize what we've told them to do with their galaxy brain.

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