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Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

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Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#21

Post by ebiester »

cookiecaper wrote: post #17
ebiester wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.system76.com/

I bought my laptop from System76 and my experience with them has been sub-par. I don't know that I'd recommend them over just buying a widespread commodity model; if it's been out long enough for another kernel release to hit, everything usually works fine.

That's unfortunate. :( - I almost went with them, but decided I didn't want a Clevo built system. My T420 has served me well, at least until a current odd bug that has me in Windows again until I can figure it out.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#22

Post by qxcv »

revorad wrote: post #20
doktrin wrote: post #12

If there really was a strong market demand (and supply!) for preinstalled Linux laptops, why hasn't any reseller stepped up to fill this gaping void? If the conclusions drawn by this paper are true, this is a massive business opportunity. They practically go so far as to imply that close to 10% of the laptop market is up for grabs if only the pesky retail oligopoly would stop sabotaging their own financial interests.…

I don't know how big the opportunity is, but from the interest in my Linux laptop store so far [1], it appears a lot of people do want these machines. Dell's entry into the market is a surprising and welcome change too. It feels a bit weird to be entering into the laptop market just as the world is moving to tablets. Linux on the desktop is perhaps the most tragic case of too little too late. But, as a hacker I want…

Hmm, just looking at your homepage there I can't say I'm entirely sure what you do. What do I gain by buying a Thinkpad from you instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro? Do I save money by not having to pay for a Windows license?

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#23

Post by brudgers »

atirip wrote: post #9

No, retailers do not stop anything. 1) Nothing, absolutely nothing sells in meaningful quantities for reatailer without marketing. 2) For unknown or new products it is not in the retailers best interest to start create market for somebody elses brand/product. There's nothing to gain. 3) The brand/product must market themselves and as nobody owns Linux, nobody will do that, hence it will not sell.

"nobody owns Linux"

It's not just marketing, it's service and education, too.

Who trains the retailer's staff? What website do customers go to for support (and how does it compare to Microsoft or Apple?

The business model for Linux is based on charging a premium for support rather than rolling it into the retail price. There's a good reason that Redhat stores don't exist. The Linux business is incompatible with consumer channels.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#24

Post by brudgers »

marcusf wrote: post #18
doktrin wrote: post #12

If there really was a strong market demand (and supply!) for preinstalled Linux laptops, why hasn't any reseller stepped up to fill this gaping void? If the conclusions drawn by this paper are true, this is a massive business opportunity. They practically go so far as to imply that close to 10% of the laptop market is up for grabs if only the pesky retail oligopoly would stop sabotaging their own financial interests.…

I doubt their reasons but not necessarily their conclusions. Breaking in to the laptop market seems fiendishly hard, at least due to economies of scale. Sure, 10% might be willing to buy a Linux laptop, but at what markup? When do you just say sod it and buy a Windows laptop to re-install. And from what I gather, Windows is so highly subsidized for OEM vendors that the cost is really negligible. Further, it seems lik…

At the retail level, it has nothing to do with economies of scale. It's all about margin.

Assuming it takes the same resources to sell a Linux box as it does to sell a Windows box (which is probably a bad assumption), then the lower price of the Linux box means less profit at a given margin.

It's not Microsoft that's preventing reseller's from offering discounts for Linux, it's basic retailing economics. There's probably only ten or twenty dollars difference at retail when it comes to Linux v. windows when all the factors are considered. It's not as if Linux machines are cheaper in logistics or take up less display space.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#25

Post by jnorthrop »

qxcv wrote: post #22
revorad wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the opportunity is, but from the interest in my Linux laptop store so far [1], it appears a lot of people do want these machines. Dell's entry into the market is a surprising and welcome change too. It feels a bit weird to be entering into the laptop market just as the world is moving to tablets. Linux on the desktop is perhaps the most tragic case of too little too late. But, as a hacker I want…

Hmm, just looking at your homepage there I can't say I'm entirely sure what you do . What do I gain by buying a Thinkpad from you instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro? Do I save money by not having to pay for a Windows license?

> instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro?

I would buy from him over Lenovo precisely to avoid having to install my own distro. I want a laptop that just works, not a new project.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#26

Post by johnchristopher »

doktrin wrote: post #12

If there really was a strong market demand (and supply!) for preinstalled Linux laptops, why hasn't any reseller stepped up to fill this gaping void? If the conclusions drawn by this paper are true, this is a massive business opportunity. They practically go so far as to imply that close to 10% of the laptop market is up for grabs if only the pesky retail oligopoly would stop sabotaging their own financial interests.…

What I understand from this article is that brand image and recognition is too strong and pervasive, retailers rely on those brand images and their marketing investments/incentives to support their side of the bussiness. So unless a new or current player invest massive amout of ressources to build a "linux" brand, retailers aren't going to support any new/different tech (aka linux).

I may have misread the article though.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#27

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

cookiecaper wrote: post #15
yardie wrote: post #11

What Linux probably needs is to take a page from Apple and set up a brick and mortar store where people can come in, try Linux, buy a PC, and get some advice. Does anyone remember how Macs were sold before the Apple store? You had the mom and pop stores that had the expertise but not the volume to make an impact. You had the online stores that had the volume but if you weren't looking, specifically, for a Mac you wou…

I agree. Desktop Linux must have a patron that operates much like Apple if anyone intends for it to get penetration. Canonical is the best candidate but it's not in Shuttleworth's playbook as far as I know, which imo is a real shame. If you want to push an alternate OS, you can't bundle it like a normal PC and sell it alongside Windows machines. You need to do what Apple did, and make it its own thing: a "Mac" instea…

We need "Ubuntu Store". I think it's the only Linux brand strong enough just now to manage it.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#28

Post by MatthewPhillips »

jnorthrop wrote: post #25
qxcv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, just looking at your homepage there I can't say I'm entirely sure what you do . What do I gain by buying a Thinkpad from you instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro? Do I save money by not having to pay for a Windows license?

> instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro? I would buy from him over Lenovo precisely to avoid having to install my own distro. I want a laptop that just works, not a new project.

Picking a linux/bsd distro is such a personal decision, though. Unless this service let's me pick from about 20 different distros (and it might), I'm probably going to wind up installing what I want anyways.

Re: Study explains how retailers stop Linux from entering the market

#30

Post by revorad »

qxcv wrote: post #22
revorad wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how big the opportunity is, but from the interest in my Linux laptop store so far [1], it appears a lot of people do want these machines. Dell's entry into the market is a surprising and welcome change too. It feels a bit weird to be entering into the laptop market just as the world is moving to tablets. Linux on the desktop is perhaps the most tragic case of too little too late. But, as a hacker I want…

Hmm, just looking at your homepage there I can't say I'm entirely sure what you do . What do I gain by buying a Thinkpad from you instead of buying it from Lenovo and installing my own distro? Do I save money by not having to pay for a Windows license?

You gain:

1. A better price on an equally specced machine because we buy in bulk.

2. Save time installing and much more importantly testing and making sure everything works out of the box. If you like playing with drivers, then maybe this is not for you (although we might want to hire you!).

3. Get to work faster - choose your distro and software packages on the site when you place your order. A fully customised machine is delivered, so that you can get to work the first time you boot it.

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